Hey tomegun...

[Raymond]

OK, back to what I wanted to discuss.

Though no one said anything about it, I made a call from the lead across the paint in one of my games this weekend (3-man). The ball had swung from the strong side to weak side slightly below free throw line extended. I immediately closed down. Before I had a chance to go ahead and rotate, A1 started penetrating to his right towards the baseline and the basket. The defender B1 has his chest against A1's left shoulder and arm with no space in between and was ever so slightly trailing A1. He then puts his left hand into A1's midsection causing A1 to slow down and forcing him to loop more towards the sideline. I didn't think there was anyway for the C to see the hand-check based on his angle behind the players.

I think I know Tomegun's answer but what do others think?

A. Go ahead and rotate even though A1 was already penetrating to the basket and then come with the whistle.

B. Pass on the foul and let the play continue on to the basket.

C. Call the hand-check even though I was calling from across the paint.

BTW, I didn't start this thread so I can't start a poll...but I'm really not looking for A/B/C answers, rather I'm looking for the reasoning behind why you would do what you would do.

And oh yeah, the UNC-VA Tech game in question was officiated by Tony Greene, Ed Corbett, and Ted Valentine (or was it Ed Hightower?, I get them confused )

[zebraman]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

A. Go ahead and rotate even though A1 was already penetrating to the basket and then come with the whistle.

B. Pass on the foul and let the play continue on to the basket.

C. Call the hand-check even though I was calling from across the paint.

A good habit to get into is to back out to wide-angle when a drive starts out of the C's primary. The logic behind it is two-fold.
1) It gets you farther away from the play so you are less likely to poach a call across the key.
2) It gives a non-verbal reminder to the C that the play is theirs to take.

You don't have to pass on a significant foul, but you should have a delayed whistle and give the C the first crack at the play. If you do decide to go over to the C's side with a whistle, it should be something significant and not something that the C might have chose to let go.

IMO (as you described it), the C should have decided if it was handcheck or not and your call might have been a little bit of a poach.

This is a good conversation to have after the game? "Hey C, did you think I reached on that one or were you straightlined?" Hopefully you'll have a partner that is comfortable enough with you to be honest in their reply.

Z

[tomegun]

BNR, this sounds like one of those plays where the C physically can't see the contact and the L might have to help. I would say let the play develop and decide if you want to have a patient whistle. Also, the L must think about the players he/she is looking past and if he/she would be better served to accelerate if they aren't going to officiate the players in their primary.

Zebraman's comments really matter on these plays. So many times the C has the call whether they call it or pass on it. If there is a double whistle on the C's side of the paint - IMO - it should either be a non-basketball play or it is a play the L should have let the C call. This is where a patient whistle comes in.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by zebraman

This is a good conversation to have after the game? "Hey C, did you think I reached on that one or were you straightlined?" Hopefully you'll have a partner that is comfortable enough with you to be honest in their reply.
Z

I'm gonna shoot him an email right now. By the time game was over the play had slipped my mine. He'll be honest with me.

Originally Posted by zebraman

A good habit to get into is to back out to wide-angle when a drive starts out of the C's primary. The logic behind it is two-fold.
1) It gets you farther away from the play so you are less likely to poach a call across the key.
2) It gives a non-verbal reminder to the C that the play is theirs to take.

You're the first person I've had tell me this. I had never thought about backing out of my close down in this situation. I've asked this question before of evaluators (in camp and in JuCo games) but no one ever really gave me a solid answer. I should have the opportunity to work a few more 3-man games this month so I'll try it out next time I get caught in that predicament.

[IREFU2]

For Tomegun and Badnews Ref -

It was a great call and I was definately straightlined and Badnews helped out. Also, from my closed down angle, I couldnt see much of any contact. So I was glad the lead made the call. Great job Badnews!!!

[tomegun]

Originally Posted by IREFU2

For Tomegun and Badnews Ref -

It was a great call and I was definately straightlined and Badnews helped out. Also, from my closed down angle, I couldnt see much of any contact. So I was glad the lead made the call. Great job Badnews!!!

It sounds like you should have taken a step up so the play would have opened up for you. Although players are fast, "closed down angle" and the C position shouldn't go together.

At the time of the call, was your position below the free-throw line extended or above it? Also, was your position on the sideline or a few steps onto the court? This play sounds like a drive to the right by the offensive player should result in a step to the left and onto the court for the C. There could always be other factors that could prevent this from being effective.

[IREFU2]

Yes, I should have stepped up and instead of down. I have been working on that alot lately.