Officiating Upper level games in your own school???

[Nate1224hoops]

As many of you know I switched over from officiating to coaching this year. This past week we had a game at a much larger school. I coach at the JV level. Guess who I see officiating? The athletic trainer/teacher at this particular school. I knew him well from my officiating days. There was no coachs box marked on the floor, yet he continued to tell me to get back into the box. He did everything he possibly could to try to provoke me. At half time I went to him with tape and ask him if he would like to put it down or should I. He responded with go ahead. Just before the second half started he ripped up the tape and attempted to put down new...that was before it got wrapped around his foot and he nearly fell. The crowd loved that. During the game he turned to one of our fans and told him to "shut-up." I didnt argue one call all night but he continued to harrass me. My team won by 10 pts. I was very displeased with him so I approached the AD after the game. He informed me that this official works all of their games. I asked, is this not a conflict of interest. He replied with you worry about your school and I'll worry about mine.

I'm sure our reginal assigner would not allow an official to call games at the school in which he/she works. I feel very strongly that this AD is paying the guy on the side and not calling in his games. He is getting off with a cheaper officating bill and some HOMECOOKING. How do you guys feel about this???

[Edited by Nate1224hoops on Jan 2nd, 2006 at 09:07 AM]

[ChuckElias]

At the JV level, the records usually don't count for much (except pride) so in the big picture, it probably doesn't make much difference if this one school uses this one teacher.

However, from the viewpoint of the local officials' association, if the association has an agreement with the school's league that the league will only use that association's officials, then the association has a legitimate complaint. Its members are not getting assignments (and therefore, game checks) that they should be receiving.

As an official, I would report this to my local association. I'm not a coach, but I think I would probably report the incident to the league or state athletic association.

[Jurassic Referee]

A trainer and teacher of a school officiating their games? Oy vey! There couldn't be many greater conflicts of interest than that one.

Find someone to report that one to. It's just wrong- no matter what kind of a job he does.

Btw, if the coaching box isn't marked, then there is no box. The coaches have to sit, unless they're doing the things allowed in the book.

[Nate1224hoops]

Yeah it was awful. The guy was very unprofessional. BTW, thats a new one on me about the coaching box. If the box isn't marked then there is no box...i agree with that. The coach has to sit??? Never heard that before. Citation???
Concerning the box, I coached all night long, not once questioning a call. I was always taught as an official that it was the home teams responsiblity to insure that all equipment was functional. To me this includes the coaching box, and if there was no box marked then if I as an official wanted to enforce a box then I must use tape to do so.

[Nate1224hoops]

Originally posted by ChuckElias
At the JV level, the records usually don't count for much (except pride) so in the big picture, it probably doesn't make much difference if this one school uses this one teacher.

However, from the viewpoint of the local officials' association, if the association has an agreement with the school's league that the league will only use that association's officials, then the association has a legitimate complaint. Its members are not getting assignments (and therefore, game checks) that they should be receiving.

As an official, I would report this to my local association. I'm not a coach, but I think I would probably report the incident to the league or state athletic association.

In our league we have a JV championship. The top two in our league compete on the same night as the Varsity Championship. So to me and the other 6 JV coaches in our league, this is a big deal.

[Forksref]

We have a very good official who teaches at one of the HS's in town. This year our association finally decided to not schedule him for any games at any level with that school. It just makes sense and it doesn't put him in a tough spot.

Also, games at ANY level are important to the players, coaches and parents of those teams. I treat any level game as a Final Four for those kids. I am a varsity official and this Saturday I will be doing a JV game between the two rival schools in town. It will be like a Final Four for those kids, I guarantee you! We wanted to make sure we put varsity level officials on that game. It will be a war.

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by Nate1224hoops
In our league we have a JV championship. The top two in our league compete on the same night as the Varsity Championship. So to me and the other 6 JV coaches in our league, this is a big deal.

Well, then that's a different kettle of fish. In my defense, I did say that the records usually don't mean much.

Around here, there's no JV post-season, which was why I made that comment. But if the JV records really do mean something, then I would definitely report it to the league and/or state athletic association.

[Nate1224hoops]

Originally posted by ChuckElias

Well, then that's a different kettle of fish. In my defense, I did say that the records usually don't mean much.

Around here, there's no JV post-season, which was why I made that comment. But if the JV records really do mean something, then I would definitely report it to the league and/or state athletic association.

Thanks Chuck

[dpk933]

I am an assistant principal at a local high school. I have told my assignors to not put me at my school for any level. I really don't like to do games at the high school on the other side of the city, but will take them occasionally.

Every Christmas my school hosts a freshmen and JV tourney. THe varisty coach usually calls the officials for this tourney. Because it starts so early in the day I help out and take a few games. This year I had to do my own school. It was not fun. Probably won't do that again.

[Nate1224hoops]

Originally posted by dpk933
I am an assistant principal at a local high school. I have told my assignors to not put me at my school for any level. I really don't like to do games at the high school on the other side of the city, but will take them occasionally.

Every Christmas my school hosts a freshmen and JV tourney. THe varisty coach usually calls the officials for this tourney. Because it starts so early in the day I help out and take a few games. This year I had to do my own school. It was not fun. Probably won't do that again.

Completely understandable. Good,respectable officials should never work a game at the school in which they teach.

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by Nate1224hoops
I was always taught as an official that it was the home teams responsiblity to insure that all equipment was functional. To me this includes the coaching box, and if there was no box marked then if I as an official wanted to enforce a box then I must use tape to do so.

The coaching box is a privilege that is given as an extra, it's not automatic according to NFHS. There's no coaching box at all, unless otherwise specifically stated. The box is an expansion of "territory" in that it's bigger than just the seat your butt is allowed to be in. You are viewing it as a restriction of "territory" as in "the coach can go anywhere unless there's a box marked." So if there's no box, you must sit.

But if your state has the coaching box, then there should be one marked on the floor. For you to offer to mark it was fine. It was very low-level of him to try to move your marking!! Just out of curiosity, did the home coach have a box marked? Did he abide by the rules?

[Nate1224hoops]

Originally posted by rainmaker

The coaching box is a privilege that is given as an extra, it's not automatic according to NFHS. There's no coaching box at all, unless otherwise specifically stated. The box is an expansion of "territory" in that it's bigger than just the seat your butt is allowed to be in. You are viewing it as a restriction of "territory" as in "the coach can go anywhere unless there's a box marked." So if there's no box, you must sit.

But if your state has the coaching box, then there should be one marked on the floor. For you to offer to mark it was fine. It was very low-level of him to try to move your marking!! Just out of curiosity, did the home coach have a box marked? Did he abide by the rules?

No there were no markings for either coach. And no, She was everywhere and received no warning. But again, the offical was probably a close friend being that he taught at the school. Yes our state does have a coaching box, therefore I as a coach am entitled to a box. If none is marked then I assume we use imaginary boxes...lol

[devdog69]

Originally posted by Nate1224hoops

Completely understandable. Good,respectable officials should never work a game at the school in which they teach.

I do JH at my school and would not have a problem doing JV except that they play on varsity nights and I am usually busy elsewhere. In my area, JV would be happy to have quality officiating and I would be appalled if they felt there was any homecooking going on. The reason we stay off of varsity games isn't because there would be any homecooking it's just to keep any questions for ever arising. I guess we are probably more laid back about lower level competition. Everybody realizes that each game is of the utmost importance to the kids involved but in many cases just finding qualified people to work those levels is difficult. It actually helps me build good foundations with my younger student athletes, they love having me officiate there games even though we sometimes have to have the discussions about why I would never give them any unfair advantage and how sometimes they may even get the short end of the stick.

[DownTownTonyBrown]

Originally posted by Nate1224hoops
Yes our state does have a coaching box, therefore I as a coach am entitled to a box. If none is marked then I assume we use imaginary boxes...lol

AND YOUR ASSUMPTION WOULD BE WRONG.

Mark your own box! That is laughable. And you think the referee was nuts; he should have T'ed you immediately and made sure you sat for the remainder. He wasn't nuts; he was being overly generous.

And you, as a visiting coach, confronted him and put tape on his floor?!

Best of luck to you in your JV taping career. Perhaps there is a reason you are a past official?

[IAABO_Ref]

Originally posted by DownTownTonyBrown

AND YOUR ASSUMPTION WOULD BE WRONG.

Mark your own box! That is laughable. And you think the referee was nuts; he should have T'ed you immediately and made sure you sat for the remainder. He wasn't nuts; he was being overly generous.

And you, as a visiting coach, confronted him and put tape on his floor?!

Best of luck to you in your JV taping career. Perhaps there is a reason you are a past official?

Wow, how to defend the zebra.