Personally, I don't send messages. I don't think that it's part of our job out there. I just try to be consistent at both ends of the court from beginning to end. I also just don't think that it's our job to be judge, jury and executioner when it comes to how a coach is telling his team to play.

We disagree completely in philosophy on this one. I just don't believe in ever calling anything looser in regards to one team over their opponent. I might tighten up on the contact if I think it's necessary, but I'm gonna tighten up at both ends- not just at one end.

How does that square with advantage/disadvantage? In such a blowout, what is insignificant to one player/team can be disastrous to the other.

You're giving an unfair advantage to the offensive team by calling fouls on the defenders that you normally wouldn't call, and not calling the same foul on the other team.

If you're calling it the same at the other end, then nobody gains an advantage out there. That's called being <b>fair</b> imo. <b>Fair</b> applies to both teams, not just one.

Jmo, but I think that it's our job to call a game consistently, and not call the game according to our own personal likes or dislikes.

70-30 in the 3rd quarter? So, potentially a whole quarter plus of this nonsense? Nevada's point is well taken. Perhaps a "Do you want to just forfeit, coach?" might be appropriate.

This would get the point across quickly without creating a scene or interrupting the game. Simple, quick, and to the point. Could also add "you are creating a travesty of the game."

You're getting into an area that's none of our business, guys. It ain't up to us to tell 'em how they supposed to play the game.

It sure is our bidness. If we don't put a stop to this, there will be blows on the court.

It's 70-30. I'm looking to get done and get out without having to whack someone or a fight breaking out. If I gotta call a few quick fouls on the pressing team, I'm doing it. If we don't send a message here, nobody else will.

JR -
I see your point and it is well taken with regard to being fair. However in this particular situation as described nothing was fair.
A message needed to be sent through a technical foul - or a few quickly called fouls on the press, before the game busted out into a travesty or a brawl.
We send messages through every call that we make - basically they all say do not do that.
Last night as a favor to a friend I had the priviledge of working a grade school Christmas tourney here in town and something similar to this situation arose in one of the games.
7th grade game early second half and one team is up 25 and still pressing - the team trailing can barely get the ball across mid-court. When the team would steal the ball they we driving to the basket and making passes off the backboard and behind the back to trailers even with no defender around - and doing some celabrating also. They built a 35 point lead it started to get a little physical. (By the way they had committed 1 foul and the other team had committted about 5 fouls) They continued to press at the urging of the fans who were hoot'n and holler'n to beat the band. This was gooing to get really ugly really fast.
So I was the trail, on the next inbound we got three quick fouls on their press before the ball got across mid court - and the coach dropped them off. they still dominated the game and ran up the score, but the game became manageable and the possibility of having other problems stopped too.
IMO I think of that as game managment. Nothing I did with those three foul calls would effect the outcome of the game - but it did accomplish the goal - It got them to stop and prevented further problems.
JMO.

If you are talking about the situation in the original post, it is already too late for that. You've just had one team purposely give the ball to the opponents and allow them to score three times. The game is already a travesty.

While I tend to think that all calls by officials are responses to the actions of the participants, I generally agree with this statement.


So what did you do about this showboating? I'd say that you missed a golden opportunity to "send a message" by calling a technical foul for taunting. A team technical would have been just fine with me.

So instead of punishing the true unsporting behavior, you nit-picked three fouls on kids for playing full-court pressure defense? I have to side with JR here. I don't think that is fair. Did this team really commit three legitimate fouls on one possession after only committing one foul previously in the half? Be careful here, it sounds like you and your partner might be calling stuff that isn't there. If you are truly concerned about the behavior of the winning team, there was a much better way to handle this; call the unsporting T mentioned above.

We have a local team that presses the whole game. The coach will put in the end of his bench quite early, but those kids still have to work hard and press full-court. I know that this coach would be very upset with you and your partner, if you tried to get his third string to move back to halfcourt.



I'm going to put all three of these clips together because they testify to your way of thinking in handling these situations.

1. The "other problems" would have stopped or not arisen had you addressed that behavior with a T or even a harsh word.

2. Game management is not calling fouls on only one team in order to get them to change their defense. It is having the judgment and the courage to take care of problem or potential problem situations as the arise.

I would be more impressed with an official who could deal with a team pressing the whole game with a big lead and manage that without problems. Talk to the players. Calm them down. Watch for things that are unsporting and would anger a kid. Simply stealing the ball or scoring does not qualify.

3. True, but it is not all about the final score. There are other lessons to be learned through athletics. It really does seem like you punished fair and aggressive play by some kids. Why was it your goal to get this team to stop pressing or to get them to not foul while continuing to press full-court? It seems that you were trying for the former. In my opinion, you should have been focused on putting a stop to the teasing and poor behavior. Whether the team steals the ball in the frontcourt or the backcourt, they can still show-off against a lesser opponent.

I'm not trying to harp on you because I know that quite a few officials think in the same manner that you have expressed. I'm just trying to get you to realize that your actions drastically effected the manner in which the game was played. Not the tone or sporting spirit, but the actual defense used. I think that you overstepped your bounds as an official an imposed yourself on the game.
I hope that you might reflect upon this. Whether you decide that anything I wrote here is worthwhile is up to you.

Unlike some people I feel all opinions are worth consideration.

If the coach were playing the end of the bench I would have possibly gone about this is a different manner.
The actions of behavior while close to were not actually unsporting or taunting.
I really did not want to call the "T" - my thought was that it would just rile up the team and the fans to a higher pitch than we already had.

I said my peace to the coach and he chose not to take off the press - There were three fouls there - would I have made the same calls in another game situation probably not.

I will take your ideas into consideration and look at dealling with this in a different manner.
Thanks

That's what this is all about.
 

Rick, This displays a very mature attitude and the perfect one to take on an internet discussion forum. Thumbs up to you. :)


Furthermore, from reading your recent posts you seem to already be quite a competent official. What we are after here is the fine-tuning and further improvement of our officiating skills through a lively exchange of ideas in the hope that each of us will someday be able to attain our officiating goals. Hopefully, all of us can express our thoughts, even those of disagreement, to each other with civility and while keeping our purpose in mind.
It is my sincere hope that I was able to do that in my above post regarding your recent game even though it was certainly critical in nature because of my feelings on particular issues involved. The criticism was meant to be about the officiating itself and not the person doing the work.


It appears from your profile information that although you registered a few years ago, you haven't posted very much until recently. I wish to encourage you to please remain an active poster on this forum. You have added something positive to the discourse. I know that I have learned a great deal and become a much better and more prepared official because of what has been written on here.

Re: That's what this is all about.
 

Hopefully, all of us can express our thoughts, even those of disagreement, to each other with civility and while keeping our purpose in mind.

[/B][/QUOTE]Shut up.

Shut up. [/B][/QUOTE]

Now where's the smiley? :)

Now where's the smiley? :) [/B][/QUOTE]If you really needed a :) to <b>know</b> that I was kidding when I posted that, then you need:
http://www.gifs.net/animate/setupz.gif
:D