varsity criticism or just helping!

[chrs_schuster]

Ok, I'm a second year ref, and by no means anywhere near the professional I am striving to be. The question I am having you answer is: at halftime, I will usually ask the Varsity officials about my first half and if theres anything I can improve on. Thats on the occasion that when I meet the Varsity officials and their personable and easy to talk to. Then theres the other situation when I'm quite and trying to reflect on my first half. Then I hear GOOD FIRST HALF... BUT!!! Why is there always 1 Varsity official who thinks hes the next to go into the NBA and can talk to me like I'm an idiot and question my calls down to the littlest thing. Am I being to forward to say I would like to get info when I ask for it, Or just bite the bullet and take the tongue-lashing?

[Jurassic Referee]

If you truly want to learn, then listen to the more experienced officials. Take what you think is their good advice and ignore and discard the rest. All they're trying to do is help you.

Btw, I don't like the idea of having other officials in the dressing room at half-time. That's when you and your partner(s) need time to go over the first half amongst yourselves. That's not the time and place for critiqing imo; after the game is a more appropriate time.

[BktBallRef]

Not everyone can give criticism constructively. The official may have the best of intentions but just can't express it so that he doesn't come across like a hardass. I would just take it with a grain of salt. Not much else you can do unless you tell him to shut up.

[zebraman]

Unfortunately, not all veteran officials have mastered being helpful AND being tactful. Just nod your head and say, "thanks for the information." If you think it's good info, add it to your game. If you don't think it's good info, just let it go in one ear and out the other.

Even though it sounds like this official isn't a great teacher, he/she is under no obligation to help you and you should at least appreciate the fact that they are taking the time to try to give you some help.

Z

[tomegun]

Like it has been said, halftime is not a good time for this. It really isn't fair (fair) to you when you are given advice at the half.
Unless the other person is hearless and enjoys running others down, it is tough to give advice. I wouldn't want to come off as someone who knows it all; it isn't like someone just starts doing a good job, everyone has been where you are.
I like to be honest and straight with someone so I think the best approach is to deliver the message like I care about the official and the game. If I know someone cares about me and aren't just dogging me out, I don't mind if they cuss me out (I know everyone doesn't like that). As long as they are delivering the message for my good, it isn't totally about the delivery, moreso the message.

YMMV

[lmeadski]

First year. I also get advice from my senior officials about a number of things (and during the game, too). It is part of our learning curve. Don't let it get you down. As was mentioned earlier, get from it what you can, discard what you already know, and always be a good listener. It's better that they offer us advice than just let us twist in the breeze as we make mistakes. And, there is nothing wrong with offering "why" you made the call you did. Don't make it argumentative, but, keep it more like a thoughtful Q & A. Most senior officials are truly trying to help.

[Edited by lmeadski on Dec 24th, 2005 at 05:54 PM]

[blindzebra]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
If you truly want to learn, then listen to the more experienced officials. Take what you think is their good advice and ignore and discard the rest. All they're trying to do is help you.

Btw, I don't like the idea of having other officials in the dressing room at half-time. That's when you and your partner(s) need time to go over the first half amongst yourselves. That's not the time and place for critiqing imo; after the game is a more appropriate time.

A tad tough to do after the game when you have to be on the court at 15 minutes, and depending on the length of the frosh/JV games, they might not even put that much time up.

I think it is much easier, and more helpful for them since we are sending in an evaluation, to get a few things at the half. We get to see if they can apply it, and they don't get ambushed with us running to do our game and then blindsided when they see the evaluation.

[truerookie]

Originally posted by chrs_schuster
Ok, I'm a second year ref, and by no means anywhere near the professional I am striving to be. The question I am having you answer is: at halftime, I will usually ask the Varsity officials about my first half and if theres anything I can improve on. Thats on the occasion that when I meet the Varsity officials and their personable and easy to talk to. Then theres the other situation when I'm quite and trying to reflect on my first half. Then I hear GOOD FIRST HALF... BUT!!! Why is there always 1 Varsity official who thinks hes the next to go into the NBA and can talk to me like I'm an idiot and question my calls down to the littlest thing. Am I being to forward to say I would like to get info when I ask for it, Or just bite the bullet and take the tongue-lashing?

Being a second year official, I take the following approach. Do not give me advise unless you have an evaluation form in your hand. Why do I say this? A person cannot remember everything and most focus on the bad. You may come to me discussing your pet peeves. The form which will have comments written on it shows the person being evaluated the area where work in most needed. The comments will displaying genuine concern about the job being done.

I approach officiating like a job. I cannot improve my work unless, I have some paperwork where I can go reference to stay the course.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by truerookie
[/B]

Being a second year official, I take the following approach. Do not give me advise unless you have an evaluation form in your hand. Why do I say this? A person cannot remember everything and most focus on the bad. You may come to me discussing your pet peeves. The form which will have comments written on it shows the person being evaluated the area where work in most needed. The comments will displaying genuine concern about the job being done.

I approach officiating like a job. I cannot improve my work unless, I have some paperwork where I can go reference to stay the course. [/B][/QUOTE]Wow!

All I can say is you're gonna be very happy person then because I don't think too many officials will be going out of their way to try to help you again after the first time you come at 'em with that one. I know I'd tell ya Sayonara.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by chrs_schuster
Why is there always 1 Varsity official who thinks hes the next to go into the NBA and can talk to me like I'm an idiot and question my calls down to the littlest thing. Am I being to forward to say I would like to get info when I ask for it, Or just bite the bullet and take the tongue-lashing?

I can tell you when I was in your shoes I always asked for opinions. I learned something from everyone that gave advice. I learned that I either should listen to most of what they had to say or I learned not to listen to them at all (usually after I saw them work). If I were you I would just listen and take what works and throw out the rest. If you keep hearing the same comments over and over again, you probably are doing something that stands out.

Peace

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by truerookie


Being a second year official, I take the following approach. Do not give me advise unless you have an evaluation form in your hand. Why do I say this? A person cannot remember everything and most focus on the bad. You may come to me discussing your pet peeves. The form which will have comments written on it shows the person being evaluated the area where work in most needed. The comments will displaying genuine concern about the job being done.

The problem with what you are saying is the fact that is not going to happen in the real world. It might be a pet peeve of yours, but it is not something most officials are going to do. One reason is I might not have even brought something like that to a game. If I am working a game behind you, I am not coming to the game to evaluate you as an official. I might not have any time to see much of your game at all. Also, most of the points I will give you will be one or two things. I am not going to give you a laundry list of thing unless I know you very well or I was at the game just to evaluate you. Remember in most situations that veteran officials are going to see newer officials are when we are doing a game too. We have to get ourselves ready for that game and looking at a newer official is not something that is the priority. Many times when I am in the stands watching an official, I might be with my partners and we are talking about our game and things we might need to worry about. I will admit that I am not always paying that close of attention to the officials unless I know the official personally.

Originally posted by truerookie
I approach officiating like a job. I cannot improve my work unless, I have some paperwork where I can go reference to stay the course.

I approach officiating as a job as well. I also know that not all advice is going to be in writing. I would not want to miss out on advice just because someone did not write it down. I know when I go to camps many things are never written down. You listen to the clinician and you move on.

Peace

[PGCougar]

Focus on the content of the message and ignore the delivery. You can choose what you want to take from it and ignore what you don't.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by truerookie

Being a second year official, I take the following approach. Do not give me advise unless you have an evaluation form in your hand. Why do I say this? A person cannot remember everything and most focus on the bad. You may come to me discussing your pet peeves. The form which will have comments written on it shows the person being evaluated the area where work in most needed. The comments will displaying genuine concern about the job being done.

I approach officiating like a job. I cannot improve my work unless, I have some paperwork where I can go reference to stay the course.

OUCH!

[blindzebra]

In Arizona the varsity officials are expected to turn in evaluations on every JV official working in front of us.

We are asked to see at least half their game, discuss things and turn in an online evaluation within 24 hours.

The JV official is asked to supply us with their info, and stay for our first half and are encouraged to come in with us at halftime.

This usually means we intently watch the 2nd quarter, take notes and go over a few points briefly at halftime. We spend the 3rd quarter seeing how they adjust, pregaming for our game, and then go in to dress after the 3rd quarter ends.

This mentoring program is a component of the criteria for post season games.

JV officials that do not take part do not advance

[tjones1]

As already stated, take all the advice you can get. Take note of the pointers you like and agree with and discard the things you don't agree with. Best bet is just to listen and not talk back.

Good luck to all working tournaments!!