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Old Fri Dec 23, 2005, 06:20pm
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Having just finished reffing a JV game, I came out to watch the varsity match. Lo and behold, the home team's center dunks twice in warmups. I looked at the referees in both instances, and they just kept on watching. They did not approach the coach to warn. The visiting coach was busy at the scorers table doing something (he didn't see the dunks). Now, they weren't thunderous dunks, the crowd didn't oooo and aaahhh, but, he didn't just drop the ball in either. Do you all instantly T when you 1. see a dunk in pregame 2. see the same kid dunk twice in pregame 3. never T this, its part of the game. And, if my senior officials are permitting this, how can I start setting precedent for this infraction?
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Old Fri Dec 23, 2005, 06:34pm
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We tell all of our officials in a pre-season meeting how we want them to handle pre-game dunks. We want it called uniformly in all games; that way nobody has any complaints:
- a pre-game dunk is never ignored. It must be called.
- Do not sound your whistle, but immediately go and tell the dunker that he has just earned himself a technical foul.
- Now go the dunker's head coach and immediately inform him/her the number of their player that just received the dunking "T". Also inform the head coach that he/she will also be charged with an indirect "T" and has lost the right to use the coaching box for the entire game.
- Inform the scorer - get the player "T" and indirect "T" to the coach entered in the score book. Also make sure that one foul gets charged towards the first-half bonus and the scorer knows how to set the AP arrow after the free throws for the "T".
- Inform the opposing coach that his team will start the game with 2 free throws and a throw-in at center.

In your situation, there ain't much you can do if the officials on the game choose to ignore it. Just shake your head and forget it. Not a bad idea to make it part of your own pre-game though so your crew gets it right.

[Edited by Jurassic Referee on Dec 23rd, 2005 at 06:39 PM]
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Old Fri Dec 23, 2005, 08:04pm
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Last night I had the night off but got invited to do a 3-man that was only 10 minutes away. So of course I helped them out, anyways while we were dressing we were talking about odd things that had happen. One of the other officials was telling us about an area school whose coach would lead them out of the locker room and dunk the ball to start their warm-ups. Great way to start the game... huh?!?!
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Old Sat Dec 24, 2005, 05:02am
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Quote:
Originally posted by tjones1
Last night I had the night off but got invited to do a 3-man that was only 10 minutes away. So of course I helped them out, anyways while we were dressing we were talking about odd things that had happen. One of the other officials was telling us about an area school whose coach would lead them out of the locker room and dunk the ball to start their warm-ups. Great way to start the game... huh?!?!
Actually, I think that is great! According to the rules it is perfectly legal.

Why? The coach is not a team member (see the definition in 4-34-4) and the pregame dunking rule only applies to team members per 10-3-4.

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Old Sat Dec 24, 2005, 08:27am
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nevadaref
Quote:
Originally posted by tjones1
Last night I had the night off but got invited to do a 3-man that was only 10 minutes away. So of course I helped them out, anyways while we were dressing we were talking about odd things that had happen. One of the other officials was telling us about an area school whose coach would lead them out of the locker room and dunk the ball to start their warm-ups. Great way to start the game... huh?!?!
Actually, I think that is great! According to the rules it is perfectly legal.

Why? The coach is not a team member (see the definition in 4-34-4) and the pregame dunking rule only applies to team members per 10-3-4.

Naw, it ain't the purpose and intent of the rules to let coaches, trainers, etc. line up and dunk the ball in warm-ups. Use R4-34-2 and R10-4-1 and nip it in the bud. Bah, humbug.
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Old Sat Dec 24, 2005, 09:47am
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Old Sat Dec 24, 2005, 11:27am
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nevadaref
Quote:
Originally posted by tjones1
Last night I had the night off but got invited to do a 3-man that was only 10 minutes away. So of course I helped them out, anyways while we were dressing we were talking about odd things that had happen. One of the other officials was telling us about an area school whose coach would lead them out of the locker room and dunk the ball to start their warm-ups. Great way to start the game... huh?!?!
Actually, I think that is great! According to the rules it is perfectly legal.

Why? The coach is not a team member (see the definition in 4-34-4) and the pregame dunking rule only applies to team members per 10-3-4.

I think that is as juvenile as an official palming a basketball. [Yes, I can.]
mick
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Old Sat Dec 24, 2005, 12:50pm
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"If" I see a player dunk in pregame warmups (and I never actually "see" it - unless of course it is so obvious that Stevie Wonder can see it) I do the following:

1) I immediately look away/look to see if the opposing coaching staff noticed it.
2) Pull the kid who dunked aside and have a one-way conversation like this - "don't you EVER do that again! The next time I see that, you get a T, they get 2 FT's and the ball to start the game, and you'll be walking over to your coach to tell him he cannot stand during the entire game and tell him why."
3) Then prior to tip, I let the head coach know what his player did and how I handled it.

Of course that is not what the rule book says, but that is how I prefer to manage that situation. That's what works for me.
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Old Sat Dec 24, 2005, 01:54pm
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If you noticed it someone in the gym noticed it too. When you pull the player aside the coaching staff may notice that and ask why. They most likely will get an answer.

Seems to me if you are not going to enforce the rule then they've done nothing wrong so why say anything?
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Old Sat Dec 24, 2005, 02:44pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by jeffpea
"If" I see a player dunk in pregame warmups (and I never actually "see" it - unless of course it is so obvious that Stevie Wonder can see it) I do the following:

1) I immediately look away/look to see if the opposing coaching staff noticed it.
2) Pull the kid who dunked aside and have a one-way conversation like this - "don't you EVER do that again! The next time I see that, you get a T, they get 2 FT's and the ball to start the game, and you'll be walking over to your coach to tell him he cannot stand during the entire game and tell him why."
3) Then prior to tip, I let the head coach know what his player did and how I handled it.

Of course that is not what the rule book says, but that is how I prefer to manage that situation. That's what works for me.
Are you serious?
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Old Sun Dec 25, 2005, 03:05am
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Quote:
Originally posted by jeffpea
"If" I see a player dunk in pregame warmups (and I never actually "see" it - unless of course it is so obvious that Stevie Wonder can see it) I do the following:

1) I immediately look away/look to see if the opposing coaching staff noticed it.
2) Pull the kid who dunked aside and have a one-way conversation like this - "don't you EVER do that again! The next time I see that, you get a T, they get 2 FT's and the ball to start the game, and you'll be walking over to your coach to tell him he cannot stand during the entire game and tell him why."
3) Then prior to tip, I let the head coach know what his player did and how I handled it.

Of course that is not what the rule book says, but that is how I prefer to manage that situation. That's what works for me.
Are you serious?
Nor does he make a call that "decides the game" or "takes the game away from the players" in the last moments.

Find the courage to do it right.
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Old Sun Dec 25, 2005, 10:09am
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In NY, when the officials come out of the locker room, the dunking stops. Before that, open season.
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Old Mon Dec 26, 2005, 12:11am
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Quote:
Originally posted by tjones1
Last night I had the night off but got invited to do a 3-man that was only 10 minutes away. So of course I helped them out, anyways while we were dressing we were talking about odd things that had happen. One of the other officials was telling us about an area school whose coach would lead them out of the locker room and dunk the ball to start their warm-ups. Great way to start the game... huh?!?!
__________________________________________________ ________

I am trying to figure out where this school is. I haven't got a clue which coach around here could dunk.
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Old Mon Dec 26, 2005, 12:48am
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Quote:
Originally posted by refnrev
Quote:
Originally posted by tjones1
Last night I had the night off but got invited to do a 3-man that was only 10 minutes away. So of course I helped them out, anyways while we were dressing we were talking about odd things that had happen. One of the other officials was telling us about an area school whose coach would lead them out of the locker room and dunk the ball to start their warm-ups. Great way to start the game... huh?!?!
__________________________________________________ ________

I am trying to figure out where this school is. I haven't got a clue which coach around here could dunk.
Bob,

I'm not sure either to be honest, he never did really say. I would guess it's somewhere north of me.
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Old Mon Dec 26, 2005, 06:02pm
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What criteria do you use to determine a dunk? In our pre-games we usually decide that if the rim doesn't shake then it was not a dunk. The player simply laid the ball over the basket and dropped it in. I have also been told by some pretty experienced officials in my area that, using this criteria, if a player lays it over the hoop it is good preventive officiating to let him know that if the rim moves it's a T. I called one one night in a freshman game after the player's second one clearly vibrated the rim and backboard. The coach said he had done it twice previous to that. I explained that on the others the rim did not move so in my opinion it was not a dunk. It worked in this instance and I think it is also a good response since the coach then knows that you were paying attention. I do not agree that looking away and pretending you didn't see it is the correct method.
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