Assistant Coach Instructing Players

[bookemDano]

Hello,
I've been a head coach and assistant coach in youth basketball for the past six years and I had something happen in a game Sat. that I have never seen before.

During the first quarter of a 5th grade boys game, the head coach was up on her feet instructing the players and I was sitting next to her instructing different players at the same time. Our players were confused on defensive assignments so we were both trying to get different players to find their man assignments.

It was a small gym and we were quite loud. The lead official stopped the game. Came over and asked who was the head coach. He then said that "assistant coach couldn't coach players from the bench during play but only head coaches could do that. He said I could "coach" during timeouts and between quarters."

Between quarters, I politely approached the official, apologized, and said that I never heard of that rule before and he told me it was "in the high school rule book."

Later that night I watched two high school games and assistant coaches were yelling out instructions the entire game.

Is there such a rule for assistant coaches? Can officials instruct coaching staffs to be "quieter" when they are addressing players on the court during play?

My gut feeling is that the official in my game was probably working on his fourth straight assignment and all our yelling was giving him a headache! As an assistant referee in soccer, I can relate to that ... I'm just confused about the rules of assistant coaches "instructing players."

Thanks for your thoughts ...

[ref18]

As long as the ***'t coach's *** is securly in the seat except for the exceptions listed in rule 10 then I have no problem whatsoever with them coaching.

[JRutledge]

Unless there is a local rule of some kind, the officials was wrong as it relates to National Federation Rules or NCAA Rules. The official would be right as it relates to assistant coaches not being able to have the same rights as a HC in many other aspects of the game.

Having said all of that, if this was a 5th grade game I can tell you that you are going to get either brand new officials or officials that are not capable to work other levels. So what you are describing is not unusual at all at this level. I am sure that the official just got confused with another rule (unless of course there is a local rule) and was enforcing a rule that actually does not exist.

Peace

[Nevadaref]

Dano,
According to the NFHS rules as an assistant coach you are allowed to coach/instruct your players while you are SEATED on the bench. You are not allowed to STAND and give instructions except for a few specific times (one example is during a time-out).

Here is the current year's Point of Emphasis regarding the coaching box: (I've put the part mentioning assistant coaches in bold for you.)


D. Coaching box: The committee wants coaches to stay in the coaching box. There is a constant problem when coaches wander. It is a distinct advantage to the coach who is permitted to be out of the box because the coach has a better chance to communicate with his/her team. The coach can also influence play by being out on the court.

The rule is black-and-white, but it has not been dealt with properly. Most officials have not enforced the rule. The fact that the coach is not directing comments to the officials or is “coaching the team” has no bearing on rule enforcement. The coach who continually abuses the coaching-box rule risks having his or her governing body remove it completely. The official who doesn’t enforce it runs the risk of not following what the governing body wants enforced.

Once the coaching box has been removed because of a technical foul, all related rules restrictions must apply. ThereÂ’s no way to get the box back after the privilege has been lost.

Assistant coaches must be seated at all times except during time-outs, to attend to an injured player after being beckoned and to spontaneously react to a play. The rules that permit a head coach to rise in certain situations (time-outs, confer with table personnel for a correctable error, dealing with disqualifications) do not apply to assistant coaches under any circumstances. Again, the fact that an assistant coach is “only coaching” has no bearing on the rule or enforcement.

Head coaches have the responsibility to remain in the box. School administrators must support that by demanding their coaches do so. When violated, the official must enforce the rule with a technical foul.




The above may be found at:
http://www.nfhs.org/scriptcontent/va...OOT&NewsImage=

[rainmaker]

It's probable that the ref is fairly new and just hasn't got the details ironed out yet. It was smart of you to be polite, and to not argue much. If possible, you should carry a rule book with you, so that you can politely ask the ref for a reference. You ought to wait until half time to do this so he doesn't feel like he's being put on the spot. It's also possible that it didn't sound to him like what you were saying was coaching. Perhaps he thought you were trying to instruct him. I've had games where the asst coach was yelling "Three!! Three!!" and I couldn't tell if that was a play, or whether he thought I should be calling three seconds.

In the future, if this happens again, you can instruct your players to run to the sidelines during dead balls, and give them their instructions quietly. I know this isn't as good, but it would be better than getting a T from a green ref who just doesn't know any better.

[bgtg19]

Originally posted by JRutledge
[I]f this was a 5th grade game I can tell you that you are going to get either brand new officials or officials that are not capable to work other levels.

While Rut's two explanations (new official and bad official) probably are the most common, in our area one can often see varsity officials working middle school games. Most often, these varsity officials are working with the newer officials. (Just last week, an official who worked the state finals and state semi-finals in the past two seasons was working a seventh-grade game with a brand new official). In many past threads, Rut has made it clear that he chooses NOT to officiate at the middle school level for any reason -- and he has the right to make that choice for himself -- but I am writing to counter the stereotype that all middle school game officials are either inexperienced or destined-to-remain-at-that-level.

[Nu1]

The official in this situation could be wrong and right. His statement about it being a rule in the high school rule book would count towards the "wrong" side. However, as someone else mentioned, these leagues often have their own rule adaptations.

For example, in the local 5th and 6th grade league there is no coaching box. The head coach cannot stand at all. Even though this is not how it is done in the high school games. So, it's possible your league has a rule about assistant coaches. You should look into a copy of league rules in addition to just having an NFHS rule book.

Also, in my area, many seasoned, veteran, varsity men and women work these traveling league games. It is by no means just new, green officials.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by rainmaker
If possible, you should carry a rule book with you, so that you can politely ask the ref for a reference. You ought to wait until half time to do this so he doesn't feel like he's being put on the spot.

If a coach pulls a rule book out on me, that rule book will be going outa the gym. And it might be followed shortly by it's possessor. Half-time or not.

Pulling a rule book out on an official is exactly the same as telling that official that they don't know the rules. It's also embarrassing that official. It's not a good idea, imo, no matter what the level of the league or experience level of the official.

Instead, try politely asking that official to check out that particular rule when he/she gets a chance. Jmo.

[RookieDude]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

If a coach pulls a rule book out on me, that rule book will be going outa the gym. And it might be followed shortly by it's possessor. Half-time or not.

Pulling a rule book out on an official is exactly the same as telling that official that they don't know the rules. It's also embarrassing that official. It's not a good idea, imo, no matter what the level of the league or experience level of the official.

Instead, try politely asking that official to check out that particular rule when he/she gets a chance. Jmo.

I agree with JR completely...if a coach comes into our locker room totting a rule book, I don't think that coach is going to get much positive feedback.

I also disagree with JRut's blanket assesment of AAU or Middle School officials...in this area we have many State Playoff H.S. Varsity Officials doing a few of those games now and then.

[Man In Blue]

You've missed the point. If your players are that confused about assignments call a time out. That is the time for both of you to coach.

In these types of threads we only get one side of the story and often we jump on the side not represented.

I do alot of middle and sub varsity games along with my varsity schedule. I would not allow 2 coaches to scream "instructions" at 5th graders. I would look under sportsmanship or mockery of the game for a rule reference.

[Kevzebra]

I think it really denpends on the level of game and what the coach is doing. I myself do not do many lower level games anymore (just too much to do), but until they made me keep the coach in the box, I really didn't care where he/she went if they were coaching their team. Assistants were treated somewhat differently, although if they got up to give a command and sat back down, I rarely said anything.

But, at a middle school (un-official game that is) or lower level, I look upon that as an instructional league. The kids are there to learn, so help them learn. Do let them know that there are people out there (officials) that will make them sit down, cause that's what is in "THE BOOK", but those people are where they are for a reason. Most of them don't have the mentality to officiate anything above rec ball. They have "rabbit ears" and a temper to match (usually) and have no business on the court in the first place. But, since some of us have moved on to bigger and better things, someone has to do those games for 10 bucks or so!

IF an assistant gets up to teach, let him/her do it. If he gets up and tries to teach ME, then "Houston, we have a problem".

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Man In Blue

I do alot of middle and sub varsity games along with my varsity schedule. I would not allow 2 coaches to scream "instructions" at 5th graders. I would look under sportsmanship or mockery of the game for a rule reference.

Unfortunately, you wouldn't be able to find a pertinent rules references under either when looking. There's rules governing how they coach, but no rules saying that they can't coach.

[Texref]

I've got absolutly no problem with an assistant coach who is actually coaching their kids. Especially if they are sitting down. If they are standing, usually just a quick reminder that only one coach can stand. In the summer league stuff, I don't care which coach stands, but only one can. (And yes, I know that is not what the rules say but that is what I do.)

[Junker]

The assistant can coach from the bench. Not a problem as far as I'm concerned as long as he or she is coaching players. As far as the working lower level discussion, I'm phasing out the lower level games slowly. I tend to have "rabbit ears" when working them. I put up with far less complaining from a Freshman coach than a varsity coach. I guess I look at it as though the lower level kids are there to learn the game primarily. Coaches and players should be concerned with learning to play the game, not what I'm doing. If we can teach them proper sportsmanship then, we hopefully won't have to use a T to teach them in a varsity game when the stakes are a little higher.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by bgtg19

While Rut's two explanations (new official and bad official) probably are the most common, in our area one can often see varsity officials working middle school games. Most often, these varsity officials are working with the newer officials. (Just last week, an official who worked the state finals and state semi-finals in the past two seasons was working a seventh-grade game with a brand new official).

This game was not a middle school game. The game was a 5th grade basketball game. There is a difference between a middle school game and a grammar school game, which this example was. I am going to take a pretty good hypothesis and say this was not a state final official that told this coach to not coach while sitting on the bench.

Originally posted by bgtg19
In many past threads, Rut has made it clear that he chooses NOT to officiate at the middle school level for any reason -- and he has the right to make that choice for himself -- but I am writing to counter the stereotype that all middle school game officials are either inexperienced or destined-to-remain-at-that-level.

I also did not say that. I said that I would not fill up an entire schedule to work middle school games. In other words I am not asked because of my experience and I would not be available because of my current schedule. I never said I will not work those games at all; it is just unlikely that a person in my years of experience would even be available. Why, because most of us have real jobs and other obligations. Officiating at the very least is a hobby for most of us and when you get to a point you are not going to work a JH game at the sacrifice of your real job. Unless you are a teacher and will always end your day in the middle of the afternoon, it is not easy to work 5 and 6 days out of the week trying to officiate for maybe $40. I already lose money not taking appointments when I officiate.

Peace