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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Wed Dec 14, 2005, 11:32pm
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Had a situation last night where my partner calls a T on a player for taunting. My other partner and I clear the players to shoot free throws. Blue #3 walks with me to the free throw line to shoot. I ask him if he is my shooter to which he replies "Yes". After he poorly misses the first of two, Blue's coach starts screaming "You didn't ask me who I wanted to shoot". As you can imagine, a disucssion followed. We allowed him to change shooters but only allowed a total of 2 free throws.

Now on to the tricky part. Rule 8.3 says "The coach or captain shall designate the free thrower(s)." Since we goofed up and didn't ask the coach who he would like to shoot the free throws, do we allow him to designate a player to shoot 2 more free throws (total of 3)? If so, please cite case book reference (you may have to dig deep in the attic for this one...).
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old Wed Dec 14, 2005, 11:52pm
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Unfortunately I left my book somewhere else other than home. I do not currently have them to reference for this topic. I do know off of pure memory that you could designate a different FT shooter for each FT attempt. So if you are shooting 4 Technical foul shots, 4 different players can shoot a FT.

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  #3 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 15, 2005, 09:46am
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If it's HS, different players can shoot each of the throws for the T.

In NCAA, the same player must shoot both throws.

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  #4 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 15, 2005, 10:24am
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Since the other responders told you information that you already knew, NFHS allows different shooters to take the FTs, but didn't answer your real question of whether you should have given a replacement throw, I'll do my best to answer that for you.

NO substitute throw is justified.

Your mistake was an official's mistake not a correctable error. The same as administering personal and technical FTs in the wrong order. All merited FTs were attempted and no unmerited FTs were attempted. The FTs were shot at the right basket.

Did the right shooter attempt the first FT?

That is the coach's best rule to argue, but I believe that it is lacking. To your knowledge the right shooter attempted the first FT, since the kid told you yes when you asked him. You should have asked the captain or the coach, but you made a mistake and didn't. That is simply an officials mistake. The non-captain also made a mistake. The coach and captain also were mistaken for not speaking up and allowing the attempt. Plenty of blame to go around here.

I'll cite 8.7 Situation B as the reason for not allowing a substitute throw. Just give them a total of two and allow a change of shooters, as you did, for the second FT.

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  #5 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 15, 2005, 10:26am
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PS 8.2 in the case book is the play which specifies that two different players can attempt technical FTs.

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Old Thu Dec 15, 2005, 10:42am
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nevadaref
Since the other responders told you information that you already knew, NFHS allows different shooters to take the FTs, but didn't answer your real question of whether you should have given a replacement throw, I'll do my best to answer that for you.

NO substitute throw is justified.

Your mistake was an official's mistake not a correctable error. The same as administering personal and technical FTs in the wrong order. All merited FTs were attempted and no unmerited FTs were attempted. The FTs were shot at the right basket.

Did the right shooter attempt the first FT?

That is the coach's best rule to argue, but I believe that it is lacking. To your knowledge the right shooter attempted the first FT, since the kid told you yes when you asked him. You should have asked the captain or the coach, but you made a mistake and didn't. That is simply an officials mistake. The non-captain also made a mistake. The coach and captain also were mistaken for not speaking up and allowing the attempt. Plenty of blame to go around here.

I'll cite 8.7 Situation B as the reason for not allowing a substitute throw. Just give them a total of two and allow a change of shooters, as you did, for the second FT.

AFAIK we are not required to ask who's designated to shoot the FT, or verify the right player comes to the line. So not only is this not a correctable error, it's not an error period.

If A6 goes to the line to shoot he's the designated FT shooter.
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Old Thu Dec 15, 2005, 11:13am
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Dan_ref
Quote:

AFAIK we are not required to ask who's designated to shoot the FT, or verify the right player comes to the line.
True, but it's a very good idea to do so. The rule book says that the coach or captain shall designate the free thrower so we should take our time and ask the coach to make sure we have the shooter at the line that he/she wants.

Z
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  #8 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 15, 2005, 11:23am
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By rule, the coach or captain designates the shooter for T's. I presume your shooter was not a captain?
Why did the coach wait til he missed them both? Would he have made a fuss if he hit 1-2 or 2-2? He saw his player setting up for the first shot and said nothing? He would not get any replacement throws.
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 15, 2005, 11:47am
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SECTION 3 ATTEMPTING TECHNICAL-FOUL FREE THROWS
The free throws awarded because of a technical foul may be attempted by any player of the offended team, including an eligible substitute or designated starter. The coach or captain shall designate the free thrower(s).
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  #10 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 15, 2005, 11:51am
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Quote:
Originally posted by ChrisSportsFan
By rule, the coach or captain designates the shooter for T's. I presume your shooter was not a captain?
Why did the coach wait til he missed them both? Would he have made a fuss if he hit 1-2 or 2-2? He saw his player setting up for the first shot and said nothing? He would not get any replacement throws.
The first shooter was not a captain. The coach did not voice his complaint until the first free throw was missed. We then allowed him to change free throw shooters for the second free throw.
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  #11 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 15, 2005, 03:07pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dan_ref
Quote:
Originally posted by Nevadaref
Since the other responders told you information that you already knew, NFHS allows different shooters to take the FTs, but didn't answer your real question of whether you should have given a replacement throw, I'll do my best to answer that for you.

NO substitute throw is justified.

Your mistake was an official's mistake not a correctable error. The same as administering personal and technical FTs in the wrong order. All merited FTs were attempted and no unmerited FTs were attempted. The FTs were shot at the right basket.

Did the right shooter attempt the first FT?

That is the coach's best rule to argue, but I believe that it is lacking. To your knowledge the right shooter attempted the first FT, since the kid told you yes when you asked him. You should have asked the captain or the coach, but you made a mistake and didn't. That is simply an officials mistake. The non-captain also made a mistake. The coach and captain also were mistaken for not speaking up and allowing the attempt. Plenty of blame to go around here.

I'll cite 8.7 Situation B as the reason for not allowing a substitute throw. Just give them a total of two and allow a change of shooters, as you did, for the second FT.

AFAIK we are not required to ask who's designated to shoot the FT, or verify the right player comes to the line. So not only is this not a correctable error, it's not an error period.

If A6 goes to the line to shoot he's the designated FT shooter.

Do the right thing and ask the coach. Its called preventative officiating, and communicating with the coach in this situation won't hurt. This will significantly reduce the probability of the wrong shooter taking the shots. The only person a coach could blame is either himself or the shooter (we know who will blame then).
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 15, 2005, 03:33pm
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The rook has a question--

Can the coach use a player not on the floor to shoot the technical if
a) s/he is at the table before the T is called and
b) s/he is not at the table before the T is called

I think it is no and no...
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Old Thu Dec 15, 2005, 03:34pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Drizzle
The rook has a question--

Can the coach use a player not on the floor to shoot the technical if
a) s/he is at the table before the T is called and
b) s/he is not at the table before the T is called

I think it is no and no...
Actually, the answers are yes and yes.
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  #14 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 15, 2005, 03:37pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Drizzle
The rook has a question--

Can the coach use a player not on the floor to shoot the technical if
a) s/he is at the table before the T is called and
b) s/he is not at the table before the T is called

I think it is no and no...
Yes and yes....

Rule 8-3.

Note that the coach can use 2 different substitutes to shoot the free throws if he/she wants to.

Welcome to the forum, rook.
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  #15 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 15, 2005, 03:41pm
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Thanks for putting me straight guys before I screwed that call up! I'm learning something every day I come here.
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