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-   -   Lets Talk Displacement (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/23687-lets-talk-displacement.html)

blindzebra Wed Dec 14, 2005 04:18pm
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Contact?
 
Quote:
Originally posted by Dan_ref
Quote:
Originally posted by blindzebra
Quote:
Originally posted by Dan_ref
Quote:
Originally posted by blindzebra
Quote:
Originally posted by Dan_ref
Quote:
Originally posted by blindzebra


Blocking out is holding YOUR position and NOT CREATING A NEW ONE by displacing another player.
We agree that blocking out is holding your position.

Normally A1 holds his position against B1 & B1 holds his position against A1. They do this by pushing against each other with their bodies...it's senseless to "hold your position" if there's no one else trying to push you out of it.

That said, why should A1 be penalized because B1 fails to hold his own position and permits A1 to displace him?
Then why call a charge since B1 failed to hold their legal position when A1 pushed through them?

I guess we won't call the push on B1 that sends A1 flying since A1 did not hold their position either.
You're the one who said "Blocking out is holding your position and not creating a new on by displacing another player.", I merely agreed with you and took it to the logical next step.

Your series of "yeahbut-whatif" plays are not relevant at all to the scenario we're discussing.

Let's try again: if it's legal to "hold your position" while blocking out then against what, exactly, are you holding your position?
Holding as in screening off, sealing, or keeping the opponent from getting to the ball without going through you.
This seems to violate basic screening principles.
Quote:

That phrase in no way describes the sumo match you are suggesting, and yes by your "next logical step" the plays I gave are completely relevant.
Sumo match is not a word I would use, but let's go with it. If A1 & B1 engage in a sumo match waiting for the rebound then unless there's discplacement there's no foul I take it.
[/B][/QUOTE]

I'm not taking the bait.

You know it is not violating screening principles the way I described it, and playing up an obvious exaggeration to spin away from being busted on the other post, is not gonna cut it.

Bored or something?;)

Dan_ref Wed Dec 14, 2005 04:26pm
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Contact?
 
Quote:
Originally posted by blindzebra
Quote:
Originally posted by Dan_ref
Quote:
Originally posted by blindzebra
Quote:
Originally posted by Dan_ref
Quote:
Originally posted by blindzebra
Quote:
Originally posted by Dan_ref
Quote:
Originally posted by blindzebra


Blocking out is holding YOUR position and NOT CREATING A NEW ONE by displacing another player.
We agree that blocking out is holding your position.

Normally A1 holds his position against B1 & B1 holds his position against A1. They do this by pushing against each other with their bodies...it's senseless to "hold your position" if there's no one else trying to push you out of it.

That said, why should A1 be penalized because B1 fails to hold his own position and permits A1 to displace him?
Then why call a charge since B1 failed to hold their legal position when A1 pushed through them?

I guess we won't call the push on B1 that sends A1 flying since A1 did not hold their position either.
You're the one who said "Blocking out is holding your position and not creating a new on by displacing another player.", I merely agreed with you and took it to the logical next step.

Your series of "yeahbut-whatif" plays are not relevant at all to the scenario we're discussing.

Let's try again: if it's legal to "hold your position" while blocking out then against what, exactly, are you holding your position?
Holding as in screening off, sealing, or keeping the opponent from getting to the ball without going through you.
This seems to violate basic screening principles.
Quote:

That phrase in no way describes the sumo match you are suggesting, and yes by your "next logical step" the plays I gave are completely relevant.
Sumo match is not a word I would use, but let's go with it. If A1 & B1 engage in a sumo match waiting for the rebound then unless there's discplacement there's no foul I take it.
I'm not taking the bait.

You know it is not violating screening principles the way I described it, and playing up an obvious exaggeration to spin away from being busted on the other post, is not gonna cut it.

Bored or something?;) [/B][/QUOTE]

Being busted?

Honey, of all the things I worry about in this lifetime "being busted" on this forum is not even on the list.

So let's get back to the issue: you said "Blocking out is holding your position and not creating a new one by displacing another player."

Does this mean that A1 & B1 can legally engage in a sumo match (your words again) as long as there is no displacement?

Assuming screening principles are not violated of course.

And btw, I am very serious.

devdog69 Wed Dec 14, 2005 04:31pm
Re: I agree with Mick
 
What you permit, you promote...

Quote:
Originally posted by David B
Quote:
Originally posted by mick
Quote:
Originally posted by Chess Ref
I am open to the possibility that I am the village idiot on this one, but I don't think so....

Player A shoots a jumpshot and lands. As soon as Player A lands Player B then sticks his butt into Player A and drives Player A back say 2 feet. I tweet , I got pushing. coach is very upset with me .Coach tells me that is good rebounding.

I am now noticing this occuring more and more.

Is my call legimate or I am seeing things ???/

Opinions please.

Chess Ref,
I make that call with less frequency, every year.
mick
That's been taught for years and as Mick stated, I call it less all the time.

As long as it doesn't affect the shot I'm just treating it as incidental contact.

Thansk
David

blindzebra Wed Dec 14, 2005 04:37pm
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Contact?
 
Quote:
Originally posted by Dan_ref
Quote:
Originally posted by blindzebra
Quote:
Originally posted by Dan_ref
Quote:
Originally posted by blindzebra
Quote:
Originally posted by Dan_ref
Quote:
Originally posted by blindzebra
Quote:
Originally posted by Dan_ref
Quote:
Originally posted by blindzebra


Blocking out is holding YOUR position and NOT CREATING A NEW ONE by displacing another player.
We agree that blocking out is holding your position.

Normally A1 holds his position against B1 & B1 holds his position against A1. They do this by pushing against each other with their bodies...it's senseless to "hold your position" if there's no one else trying to push you out of it.

That said, why should A1 be penalized because B1 fails to hold his own position and permits A1 to displace him?
Then why call a charge since B1 failed to hold their legal position when A1 pushed through them?

I guess we won't call the push on B1 that sends A1 flying since A1 did not hold their position either.
You're the one who said "Blocking out is holding your position and not creating a new on by displacing another player.", I merely agreed with you and took it to the logical next step.

Your series of "yeahbut-whatif" plays are not relevant at all to the scenario we're discussing.

Let's try again: if it's legal to "hold your position" while blocking out then against what, exactly, are you holding your position?
Holding as in screening off, sealing, or keeping the opponent from getting to the ball without going through you.
This seems to violate basic screening principles.
Quote:

That phrase in no way describes the sumo match you are suggesting, and yes by your "next logical step" the plays I gave are completely relevant.
Sumo match is not a word I would use, but let's go with it. If A1 & B1 engage in a sumo match waiting for the rebound then unless there's discplacement there's no foul I take it.
I'm not taking the bait.

You know it is not violating screening principles the way I described it, and playing up an obvious exaggeration to spin away from being busted on the other post, is not gonna cut it.

Bored or something?;)
Being busted?

Honey, of all the things I worry about in this lifetime "being busted" on this forum is not even on the list.

So let's get back to the issue: you said "Blocking out is holding your position and not creating a new one by displacing another player."

Does this mean that A1 & B1 can legally engage in a sumo match (your words again) as long as there is no displacement?

Assuming screening principles are not violated of course.

And btw, I am very serious. [/B][/QUOTE]

You misrepresented what I said to having two players pushing against each other.

If I have a sumo match, I've got a double foul.

Dan_ref Wed Dec 14, 2005 04:48pm
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Contact?
 
Quote:
Originally posted by blindzebra


You misrepresented what I said to having two players pushing against each other.

If I have a sumo match, I've got a double foul.
What about displacement then?

I thought you said boxing out is all about holding your position and not displacing an opponent?

There's no other way to hold your position without exerting force in the oposite direction (otherwise known as pushing).

While boxing out players push against each other. Period. If you can't accept that then we're just on 2 different planes and there's no use continuing.



blindzebra Wed Dec 14, 2005 05:08pm
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Contact?
 
Quote:
Originally posted by Dan_ref
Quote:
Originally posted by blindzebra


You misrepresented what I said to having two players pushing against each other.

If I have a sumo match, I've got a double foul.
What about displacement then?

I thought you said boxing out is all about holding your position and not displacing an opponent?

There's no other way to hold your position without exerting force in the oposite direction (otherwise known as pushing).

While boxing out players push against each other. Period. If you can't accept that then we're just on 2 different planes and there's no use continuing.


So a player can't hold a position without exerting force?

A1 turns to rebound and establishes a position on that spot, that is HOLDING A POSITION. It is in the rules under every player is entitled to the spot on the floor as long as they obtained that position legally.

Junker Wed Dec 14, 2005 06:33pm
If I have a sumo match, both players are going to the bench because those little (or in most cases big) g-string whatevertheyarecalled that they wear are not legal uniforms. Boxing out is holding your position. Yes there is contact but no foul. Boxing out and pushing a player backwards is a foul. Like I said earlier, call it early and they won't do it. If a coach teaches players to do this, they are teaching them to foul and better have some subs ready for when players are fouling out.

Dan_ref Wed Dec 14, 2005 06:37pm
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Contact?
 
Quote:
Originally posted by blindzebra
Quote:
Originally posted by Dan_ref
Quote:
Originally posted by blindzebra


You misrepresented what I said to having two players pushing against each other.

If I have a sumo match, I've got a double foul.
What about displacement then?

I thought you said boxing out is all about holding your position and not displacing an opponent?

There's no other way to hold your position without exerting force in the oposite direction (otherwise known as pushing).

While boxing out players push against each other. Period. If you can't accept that then we're just on 2 different planes and there's no use continuing.


So a player can't hold a position without exerting force?
That's right. When it comes to rebounding action (at least) a player is going to have difficulty holding a position without exerting force.

That's a fact of life. But as I said, if you don't see this in your games then we're on 2 different planes and there's no need to it discuss further.

Jurassic Referee Wed Dec 14, 2005 06:48pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Junker
If I have a sumo match, both players are going to the bench because those little (or in most cases big) g-string whatevertheyarecalled that they wear are not legal uniforms.
What's illegal about this uniform? :confused:
http://www.sodamnfunny.com/Picture/People/ballerina.jpg

M&M Guy Wed Dec 14, 2005 06:50pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Quote:
Originally posted by Junker
If I have a sumo match, both players are going to the bench because those little (or in most cases big) g-string whatevertheyarecalled that they wear are not legal uniforms.
What's illegal about this uniform? :confused:
http://www.sodamnfunny.com/Picture/People/ballerina.jpg
Can't read the player's number between the folds...

Dan_ref Wed Dec 14, 2005 06:52pm
Quote:
Originally posted by M&M Guy
Quote:
Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Quote:
Originally posted by Junker
If I have a sumo match, both players are going to the bench because those little (or in most cases big) g-string whatevertheyarecalled that they wear are not legal uniforms.
What's illegal about this uniform? :confused:
http://www.sodamnfunny.com/Picture/People/ballerina.jpg
Can't read the player's number between the folds...
See what donuts will do for ya??

Forksref Wed Dec 14, 2005 06:58pm
If the rebound falls off in the other direction, it's a no call unless you see too much contact. It's like "off the ball" plays in FB. Did it have any effect on the play? If not, it's a no-call.


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