one and one

benbret · #1 (**permalink**) Sat Dec 10, 2005, 07:10am

Team A player is called for a foul during a rebound. Team B puts the ball in play and is in front court running a play when the C stops play and says the table told him that it shoud have been a 1 and 1 free throw. Do we shoot the 1 and 1 and continue or do we clear the lane, shoot the 1 and 1 and resume play.

JugglingReferee · #2 (**permalink**) Sat Dec 10, 2005, 07:32am

Quote:

Originally posted by benbret
Team A player is called for a foul during a rebound. Team B puts the ball in play and is in front court running a play when the C stops play and says the table told him that it shoud have been a 1 and 1 free throw. Do we shoot the 1 and 1 and continue or do we clear the lane, shoot the 1 and 1 and resume play.

The lane will not be cleared. Resume play from the ball hitting the rim. (Fed)

JR: rules reference for us?

Edit: So I got thinking about variations of this play. Let's say instead that team B was awarded unmerited FTs. Then, A scored 2 points right near the end of the half on their next possession. While the ball is in flight, the horn goes.

Should I take away B's points and explain to B coach that A gets to keep their points?

I think I just might shut up and realize that each team scored 2 points when they weren't supposed to. Sure, one team lost a possession where they could have scored points, but could and will are different things.

Hmpf. Interesting.

[Edited by JugglingReferee on Dec 10th, 2005 at 07:59 AM]

Jurassic Referee · #3 (**permalink**) Sat Dec 10, 2005, 07:52am

Quote:

Originally posted by JugglingReferee

Quote:

Originally posted by benbret
Team A player is called for a foul during a rebound. Team B puts the ball in play and is in front court running a play when the C stops play and says the table told him that it shoud have been a 1 and 1 free throw. Do we shoot the 1 and 1 and continue or do we clear the lane, shoot the 1 and 1 and resume play.

The lane will not be cleared. Resume play from the ball hitting the rim. (Fed)

JR: rules reference for us?

The last article in R2-10 iirc. Don't haveta look it up.

Did you get that link to the football graphics that I posted over on the football forum for you? Any you can use?

JugglingReferee · #4 (**permalink**) Sat Dec 10, 2005, 08:05am

Sorry, JR, Useless Graphics was, well, useless. A friend of mine sent me a Powerpoint Presentation that warmed my insides, though.

benbret · #5 (**permalink**) Sat Dec 10, 2005, 10:27am

JR, Team B is inbounding the ball and team A steals it. Then the C stops play and says it should have been a 1 and 1. Do we take the ball from Team A and let B shoot and continue from the free throw? There has been no change of team control according to the rule reference you gave.

Ref Daddy · #6 (**permalink**) Sat Dec 10, 2005, 10:46am

Quote:

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

Quote:

Originally posted by JugglingReferee

Quote:

Originally posted by benbret
Team A player is called for a foul during a rebound. Team B puts the ball in play and is in front court running a play when the C stops play and says the table told him that it shoud have been a 1 and 1 free throw. Do we shoot the 1 and 1 and continue or do we clear the lane, shoot the 1 and 1 and resume play.

The lane will not be cleared. Resume play from the ball hitting the rim. (Fed)

JR: rules reference for us?

The last article in R2-10 iirc. Don't haveta look it up.

Did you get that link to the football graphics that I posted over on the football forum for you? Any you can use?

ART. 6 . . . If an error is corrected, play shall be resumed from the point at which it was interrupted to rectify the error, unless it involves awarding a merited free throw(s) and there has been no change of team possession since the error was made, in which case play shall resume as after any free-throw attempt(s).

bob jenkins · #7 (**permalink**) Sat Dec 10, 2005, 12:00pm

Quote:

Originally posted by benbret
JR, Team B is inbounding the ball and team A steals it. Then the C stops play and says it should have been a 1 and 1. Do we take the ball from Team A and let B shoot and continue from the free throw? There has been no change of team control according to the rule reference you gave.

The steal counts as a change of team control for purposes of this rule.

JugglingReferee · #8 (**permalink**) Sat Dec 10, 2005, 12:03pm

Quote:

Originally posted by benbret
JR, Team B is inbounding the ball and team A steals it. Then the C stops play and says it should have been a 1 and 1. Do we take the ball from Team A and let B shoot and continue from the free throw? There has been no change of team control according to the rule reference you gave.

In this case,

Once A has obtained team control, we have a change of possession. When the C blows the play dead, you would quickly get together, agree that this is a correctable sitch, explain to both coaches that B will shoot the 1+1 with the lane cleared, then resume with an A throw-in nearest where A was then C killed the play.

benbret · #9 (**permalink**) Sat Dec 10, 2005, 12:53pm

I would like to know the rule for this. Team A was the last team in control. The rule book says there is no team control durning a throw in. Team A steals the ball durning the throw in. Team control has not changed.

Jurassic Referee · #10 (**permalink**) Sat Dec 10, 2005, 01:00pm

Quote:

Originally posted by benbret
I would like to know the rule for this. Team A was the last team in control. The rule book says there is no team control durning a throw in. Team A steals the ball durning the throw in. Team control has not changed.

If team A was the last team in control, then it woulda been a team control foul that they committed- and there couldn't have been a one/one. I'm confused at what you're trying to get at, Ben. Can you lay the complete play out and we'll then try to answer it?

benbret · #11 (**permalink**) Sat Dec 10, 2005, 01:16pm

JR
Team A was in control. Team A fouled Team B durning a rebound. Still no team control for team B. Team B throws the ball in bounds (no team control durning the throw in) Team A steals the inbound pass. Center Official stops play and said it should have been a 1 and 1. According to the rule you gave me, team A would lose the ball because you said we would shoot the 1 and 1 and play from there. I hope this is clear.

Jurassic Referee · #12 (**permalink**) Sat Dec 10, 2005, 03:36pm

Quote:

Originally posted by benbret
JR
Team A was in control. Team A fouled Team B durning a rebound. Still no team control for team B. Team B throws the ball in bounds (no team control durning the throw in) Team A steals the inbound pass. Center Official stops play and said it should have been a 1 and 1. According to the rule you gave me, team A would lose the ball because you said we would shoot the 1 and 1 and play from there. I hope this is clear.

When the Team A player fouled a team B player during a rebound, that foul must be a player-control foul if the A player established player and team control on the rebound before committing the foul. It can't be a one-and-one then, Ben. There are no free-throws for a player control foul. The center official in that case would be wrong in saying there was a correctable error.. Team B would just get the ball back where they had it when the C mistakenly blew the whistle.

The only way that you can have a correctible error on this play, with a team B player shooting a 1/1 is if the original foul on the rebound by the A player happened before player and team control were established. That would mean no team control was ever established. However, as Bob Jenkins said in his post, the steal will count as a change of team control for the purposes of this rule. That's why R2-10-6 cited below is the applicable rule and Juggling Ref's last answer was correct.

Hope I didn't confuse you more with that.

bob jenkins · #13 (**permalink**) Sun Dec 11, 2005, 08:56am

Quote:

Originally posted by benbret
I would like to know the rule for this. Team A was the last team in control. The rule book says there is no team control durning a throw in. Team A steals the ball durning the throw in. Team control has not changed.

Note that the rule (2-10-6) syas "change of team possession", not "change of team control."

benbret · #14 (**permalink**) Sun Dec 11, 2005, 09:42am

JR
There is no team control durning a rebound. It would be impossible for team A to commit a player control foul durning a rebound. My point is team A was the last team in control untill official stopped play because table told him it should be 1 and 1. You said if no team control has changed then you would just shoot the 1 and 1 and go from the free throw. If that is the rule then A will lose the ball.

Jurassic Referee · #15 (**permalink**) Sun Dec 11, 2005, 01:27pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

Quote:

Originally posted by benbret
JR
Team A was in control. Team A fouled Team B durning a rebound. Still no team control for team B. Team B throws the ball in bounds (no team control durning the throw in) Team A steals the inbound pass. Center Official stops play and said it should have been a 1 and 1. According to the rule you gave me, team A would lose the ball because you said we would shoot the 1 and 1 and play from there. I hope this is clear.

The only way that you can have a correctible error on this play, with a team B player shooting a 1/1 is if the original foul on the rebound by the A player happened before player and team control were established. That would mean no team control was ever established. However, as Bob Jenkins said in his post, the steal will count as a change of team control or team possession for the purposes of this rule. That's why R2-10-6 cited below is the applicable rule and Juggling Ref's last answer at 12:03pm yesterday was correct.

Ben, you chose Door #2. There's the play according to you and there's the call according to me. The team possession changed on the team B throw-in to the team A steal.