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benbret Sat Dec 10, 2005 07:10am

Team A player is called for a foul during a rebound. Team B puts the ball in play and is in front court running a play when the C stops play and says the table told him that it shoud have been a 1 and 1 free throw. Do we shoot the 1 and 1 and continue or do we clear the lane, shoot the 1 and 1 and resume play.

JugglingReferee Sat Dec 10, 2005 07:32am

Quote:

Originally posted by benbret
Team A player is called for a foul during a rebound. Team B puts the ball in play and is in front court running a play when the C stops play and says the table told him that it shoud have been a 1 and 1 free throw. Do we shoot the 1 and 1 and continue or do we clear the lane, shoot the 1 and 1 and resume play.
The lane will not be cleared. Resume play from the ball hitting the rim. (Fed)

JR: rules reference for us?

Edit: So I got thinking about variations of this play. Let's say instead that team B was awarded unmerited FTs. Then, A scored 2 points right near the end of the half on their next possession. While the ball is in flight, the horn goes.

Should I take away B's points and explain to B coach that A gets to keep their points?

I think I just might shut up and realize that each team scored 2 points when they weren't supposed to. Sure, one team lost a possession where they could have scored points, but could and will are different things.

Hmpf. Interesting.

[Edited by JugglingReferee on Dec 10th, 2005 at 07:59 AM]

Jurassic Referee Sat Dec 10, 2005 07:52am

Quote:

Originally posted by JugglingReferee
Quote:

Originally posted by benbret
Team A player is called for a foul during a rebound. Team B puts the ball in play and is in front court running a play when the C stops play and says the table told him that it shoud have been a 1 and 1 free throw. Do we shoot the 1 and 1 and continue or do we clear the lane, shoot the 1 and 1 and resume play.
The lane will not be cleared. Resume play from the ball hitting the rim. (Fed)

JR: rules reference for us?

The last article in R2-10 iirc. Don't haveta look it up.

Did you get that link to the football graphics that I posted over on the football forum for you? Any you can use?

JugglingReferee Sat Dec 10, 2005 08:05am

Sorry, JR, Useless Graphics was, well, useless. A friend of mine sent me a Powerpoint Presentation that warmed my insides, though.

benbret Sat Dec 10, 2005 10:27am

JR, Team B is inbounding the ball and team A steals it. Then the C stops play and says it should have been a 1 and 1. Do we take the ball from Team A and let B shoot and continue from the free throw? There has been no change of team control according to the rule reference you gave.

Ref Daddy Sat Dec 10, 2005 10:46am

Quote:

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Quote:

Originally posted by JugglingReferee
Quote:

Originally posted by benbret
Team A player is called for a foul during a rebound. Team B puts the ball in play and is in front court running a play when the C stops play and says the table told him that it shoud have been a 1 and 1 free throw. Do we shoot the 1 and 1 and continue or do we clear the lane, shoot the 1 and 1 and resume play.
The lane will not be cleared. Resume play from the ball hitting the rim. (Fed)

JR: rules reference for us?

The last article in R2-10 iirc. Don't haveta look it up.

Did you get that link to the football graphics that I posted over on the football forum for you? Any you can use?

ART. 6 . . . If an error is corrected, play shall be resumed from the point at which it was interrupted to rectify the error, unless it involves awarding a merited free throw(s) and there has been no change of team possession since the error was made, in which case play shall resume as after any free-throw attempt(s).

bob jenkins Sat Dec 10, 2005 12:00pm

Quote:

Originally posted by benbret
JR, Team B is inbounding the ball and team A steals it. Then the C stops play and says it should have been a 1 and 1. Do we take the ball from Team A and let B shoot and continue from the free throw? There has been no change of team control according to the rule reference you gave.
The steal counts as a change of team control for purposes of this rule.

JugglingReferee Sat Dec 10, 2005 12:03pm

Quote:

Originally posted by benbret
JR, Team B is inbounding the ball and team A steals it. Then the C stops play and says it should have been a 1 and 1. Do we take the ball from Team A and let B shoot and continue from the free throw? There has been no change of team control according to the rule reference you gave.
In this case,

Once A has obtained team control, we have a change of possession. When the C blows the play dead, you would quickly get together, agree that this is a correctable sitch, explain to both coaches that B will shoot the 1+1 with the lane cleared, then resume with an A throw-in nearest where A was then C killed the play.

benbret Sat Dec 10, 2005 12:53pm

I would like to know the rule for this. Team A was the last team in control. The rule book says there is no team control durning a throw in. Team A steals the ball durning the throw in. Team control has not changed.

Jurassic Referee Sat Dec 10, 2005 01:00pm

Quote:

Originally posted by benbret
I would like to know the rule for this. Team A was the last team in control. The rule book says there is no team control durning a throw in. Team A steals the ball durning the throw in. Team control has not changed.
If team A was the last team in control, then it woulda been a team control foul that they committed- and there couldn't have been a one/one. I'm confused at what you're trying to get at, Ben. Can you lay the complete play out and we'll then try to answer it?

benbret Sat Dec 10, 2005 01:16pm

JR
Team A was in control. Team A fouled Team B durning a rebound. Still no team control for team B. Team B throws the ball in bounds (no team control durning the throw in) Team A steals the inbound pass. Center Official stops play and said it should have been a 1 and 1. According to the rule you gave me, team A would lose the ball because you said we would shoot the 1 and 1 and play from there. I hope this is clear.

Jurassic Referee Sat Dec 10, 2005 03:36pm

Quote:

Originally posted by benbret
JR
Team A was in control. Team A fouled Team B durning a rebound. Still no team control for team B. Team B throws the ball in bounds (no team control durning the throw in) Team A steals the inbound pass. Center Official stops play and said it should have been a 1 and 1. According to the rule you gave me, team A would lose the ball because you said we would shoot the 1 and 1 and play from there. I hope this is clear.

When the Team A player fouled a team B player during a rebound, that foul <b>must</b> be a player-control foul <b>if</b> the A player established player and team control on the rebound before committing the foul. It can't be a one-and-one then, Ben. There are no free-throws for a player control foul. The center official in that case would be wrong in saying there was a correctable error.. Team B would just get the ball back where they had it when the C mistakenly blew the whistle.

The only way that you can have a correctible error on this play, with a team B player shooting a 1/1 is if the original foul on the rebound by the A player happened <b>before</b> player and team control were established. That would mean <b>no team</b> control was ever established. However, as Bob Jenkins said in his post, the steal will count as a change of team control for the purposes of this rule. That's why R2-10-6 cited below is the applicable rule and Juggling Ref's last answer was correct.

Hope I didn't confuse you more with that. :)

bob jenkins Sun Dec 11, 2005 08:56am

Quote:

Originally posted by benbret
I would like to know the rule for this. Team A was the last team in control. The rule book says there is no team control durning a throw in. Team A steals the ball durning the throw in. Team control has not changed.
Note that the rule (2-10-6) syas "change of team possession", not "change of team control."

benbret Sun Dec 11, 2005 09:42am

JR
There is no team control durning a rebound. It would be impossible for team A to commit a player control foul durning a rebound. My point is team A was the last team in control untill official stopped play because table told him it should be 1 and 1. You said if no team control has changed then you would just shoot the 1 and 1 and go from the free throw. If that is the rule then A will lose the ball.

Jurassic Referee Sun Dec 11, 2005 01:27pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Quote:

Originally posted by benbret
JR
Team A was in control. Team A fouled Team B durning a rebound. Still no team control for team B. Team B throws the ball in bounds (no team control durning the throw in) Team A steals the inbound pass. Center Official stops play and said it should have been a 1 and 1. According to the rule you gave me, team A would lose the ball because you said we would shoot the 1 and 1 and play from there. I hope this is clear.

The only way that you can have a correctible error on this play, with a team B player shooting a 1/1 is if the original foul on the rebound by the A player happened <b>before</b> player and team control were established. That would mean <b>no team</b> control was ever established. However, as Bob Jenkins said in his post, the steal will count as a change of team control or team possession for the purposes of this rule. That's why R2-10-6 cited below is the applicable rule and Juggling Ref's last answer at 12:03pm yesterday was correct.


Ben, you chose Door #2. There's the play according to you and there's the call according to me. The team possession changed on the team B throw-in to the team A steal.


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