No offense taken Tomegun - I ref both boys and girls. Maybe I should have said that in general, a boys varsity game is easier to officiate than a boys 8th grade game and a girls varsity game is easier to officiate than a girls 8th grade game. I now understand what you were saying.

Z

No wonder you did not get it. :rolleyes:

Peace

Tomegun, I think you are going a tad apples and oranges here.

I've have seen plenty of cases where a well coached girls frosh team is far easier to officiate than a poorly coached
boys varsity team.

Every level and sex, has different challenges. Coaching and school size also plays a role.

I think the point is, and I agree, that while the game is faster and getting into position becomes more difficult, varsity players are farther along than the lower levels in running offenses and defenses.

The game has better flow. Plays can be more easily anticipated, so getting the good look becomes easier. There are far fewer times where I need to instruct a player in what they did wrong. Coaches are more used to short communications and don't tend to dwell on one call as long.

Some of us work in states where girls and boys play the same season, and we are required to work both.

Some choose to only do the girls, and that is okay.

Those that feel they are too good to work girls and turn back these games, don't usually see any boys games come state tournament time.;)

I work in a state where they both play at the same time and I work the games the assigners give me.
If the difference between boys and girls would have been specifically stated I wouldn't have made my statement. Since it was generalized I don't think my statement was apples and oranges. When specified, I would agree that the games are easier to officiate the higher you go.

Well, some states only play one or the other on certain nights. Some states tried that same night crap and it did not work. For example a conference tried the Girl's first and Boy's second formula. No one would show up for the Girl's games and everyone would show up for the Boy's games. So they changed the order and had Boy's games first and the Girl's games second. Then everyone showed up for the Boy's game and would empty the gym for the Girl's games.

Also, some states have playoffs going on at completely different times. If you want to work both, it is not very likely. You better choose if you want to go deep into the playoffs. You cannot be at two places at the same time. In some states it is not an issue of being too good; it is an issue of not being able to work both. Also, the more experienced and better officials work Boy's basketball. They will let anyone in my state work a Girl's game. In my second year of officiating I had 40 varsity girl's games without pursuing them.


BTW.......my comments were a joke. ;)

Peace

No question-the higher the level-the better the basketball-the fewer instances real judgement needs to be used-the easier the officiating. Whenever I have a lower level game I find it amazing how Coach A sees/vents about every violation by Team B but somehow doesn't notice any violations by Team A.

There is proof that they really WILL let anyone work them! :D

Z

I agree. That is why I do not work them anymore. ;) Boy's basketball all the way. I see you still work girl’s basketball. Things that make you go hmmmmmmmm.

Peace

Around here, lots of us work both boys and girls, including several of us rated at the top of both associations. I have never had a complex about working girls games even though I have heard a couple refs who are not secure enough with themselves to do it.

I have friends who have daughters and they like to see the best officials on their games too.

I am glad I am not in an area where it is looked down upon for top officials to work girls games too. That seems so 19th century.

Z

Z,

Take the stick out of your butt. I am just playing with you. I am having a little fun because you love to throw the insults my way all the time. Further more I do not care what all other people do. We all do not work in the same system and in my state you would likely not work a lot of both. Why, because the coaches and assignors do not want to see the same kind of game called. Whether you like it or not girl's games are expected to be called with less contact. When you let a lot of contact go, the coaches (both male and female coaches) go ballistic. If you are always blowing the whistle in a Boy's game the coaches there go ballistic.

I worked with a guy last night in a two man varsity Boy's game with an officials that only works about 5-7 Varsity Boy's games in a year (in his words). He did a fine job, but admitted that he had never called a GT or BI call in his career because he did very few boys’ games to begin with. He had a call that was close and he talked about how surprised he was that he might have to make a GT call. He did fine and I will work with him anytime. His comment just goes to show that everyone cannot work both. You have to be able to look at places in Boy's games that you will not have in a Girl's game. If everyone wanted to see officials work both genders, then you would see the NBA and WNBA work both leagues. You would definitely see Division 1 conferences use officials to work both the Men's and Women's tournaments. You would also see the same rules between both genders in NCAA basketball and pro basketball. The reality is you do not. So I understand that you are offended (that was my intention btw because it is so easy to offend you) that someone question your ability based on someone who has never seen you work. I do know that whether it is the 20th Century or the 21st Century basketball is not seen as the same game.

I also not telling you what I think it is, I am telling you what I know it is. I do know that everywhere I have been or talked to official, officials with less experience and proven ability tend to work more of the girl's games and the long time veterans or the up and coming stars tend to work the Boy's games. This might not apply to you, but you would probably have to change that philosophy if you moved. Take it or leave it.

Peace

Ruts statements might not be true everywhere, but I know for a fact they are true in Arizona, Mississippi, Nevada, Virginia, Washington D.C. and Maryland. Rut will add Illinois, so we are already over 10% correct for the USA! :D

I never said this applied to every part of the country (I know Tommy is not saying that, just want to make that clear). High School officiating it a completely different animal than College and pro officiating. There are fewer officials to fill more slots. There are over 300 D1 Basketball programs. There are over 700 High Schools in the state of Illinois. In many cases they need officials to work both at the HS level. I can tell you that they do not assign playoff games (everyone plays in our state) to many officials that work both.

Peace

Not true at all in Arizona, I should know since I live there.;)

We get our games from the the regional assignor. Boys and girls play the same nights, against the same schools...home and away...so you get what you are assigned.

Turn backs are frowned upon.

Everyone works both. Some of us will work 75-80% boys games, but we still get assigned girls games and are expected to work them.

What do turn backs have to do with this issue?

Of course turn backs are frowned upon. That seems to be the case everywhere. No one here is just turning back games. You work for who you want to work for. If you do not want to work for them, you do not give them information to have them hire you. If I do not want to work for someone, I do not go to their camp or accept games from them. Or you choose to work one or the other side because an assignor is not going to give a "girl's official" games. We are independent contractor here. No one can make us do anything.

Peace