The Official Forum - 10 second call by C

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mick	Tue Nov 22, 2005 01:36pm

It's just wrong.

Quote:

Originally posted by ChuckElias
Is the C over-ruling the Trail's count? Shouldn't the C blow the whistle and go to the Trail and tell him that he has definite knowledge of the count, and then ask if the Trail wants to change his count and call the violation? What if the Trail is damn sure of his count, too, and doesn't want to call the violation? What do we do, thumb-wrestle for it in the center circle?[/sarcasm]

The C knows for sure the 10 seconds have expired. No discussion; just make the call.

Just like when your partner puts up the touchdown signal and you saw the shooter's toe on the line. Same exact thing. Especially when you discuss both of them in pre-game.

Jurassic Referee

Tue Nov 22, 2005 01:37pm

Quote:

Originally posted by ChuckElias
Is the C over-ruling the Trail's count? Shouldn't the C blow the whistle and go to the Trail and tell him that he has definite knowledge of the count, and then ask if the Trail wants to change his count and call the violation? What if the Trail is damn sure of his count, too, and doesn't want to call the violation? What do we do, thumb-wrestle for it in the center circle?[/sarcasm]

Just like when your partner puts up the touchdown signal and you saw the shooter's toe on the line. Same exact thing. Especially when you discuss both of them in pre-game.

Apples and oranges....

Sigh.

Is there a difference between "make the initial call" and "over-rule the initial call", Chuck? :rolleyes:

Camron Rust

Tue Nov 22, 2005 03:13pm

Re: It's just wrong.

Quote:

Originally posted by mick

Quote:

Originally posted by ChuckElias
Is the C over-ruling the Trail's count? Shouldn't the C blow the whistle and go to the Trail and tell him that he has definite knowledge of the count, and then ask if the Trail wants to change his count and call the violation? What if the Trail is damn sure of his count, too, and doesn't want to call the violation? What do we do, thumb-wrestle for it in the center circle?[/sarcasm]

The C knows for sure the 10 seconds have expired. No discussion; just make the call.

Just like when your partner puts up the touchdown signal and you saw the shooter's toe on the line. Same exact thing. Especially when you discuss both of them in pre-game.

Sitch: B gets a rebound and A gets it back with momentary control, then B knocks the ball outa A's hand and starts to bring the ball upcourt.

Center doesn't see loss of possession, or doesn't see B fumble the ball before control.
Center blows the whistle cuz he's at 10 while Trail, always on the play, is at 8.

Centers have no bidness counting to 10.
mick

In that case, shouldn't there be a correction of the shot clock? If there was momentary control by A then back to B, the clock should have been reset.

mick	Tue Nov 22, 2005 03:37pm

Re: Re: It's just wrong.

Quote:

Originally posted by Camron Rust

Quote:

Originally posted by mick

Quote:

Originally posted by ChuckElias
Is the C over-ruling the Trail's count? Shouldn't the C blow the whistle and go to the Trail and tell him that he has definite knowledge of the count, and then ask if the Trail wants to change his count and call the violation? What if the Trail is damn sure of his count, too, and doesn't want to call the violation? What do we do, thumb-wrestle for it in the center circle?[/sarcasm]

The C knows for sure the 10 seconds have expired. No discussion; just make the call.

Just like when your partner puts up the touchdown signal and you saw the shooter's toe on the line. Same exact thing. Especially when you discuss both of them in pre-game.

Sitch: B gets a rebound and A gets it back with momentary control, then B knocks the ball outa A's hand and starts to bring the ball upcourt.

Center doesn't see loss of possession, or doesn't see B fumble the ball before control.
Center blows the whistle cuz he's at 10 while Trail, always on the play, is at 8.

Centers have no bidness counting to 10.
mick

In that case, shouldn't there be a correction of the shot clock? If there was momentary control by A then back to B, the clock should have been reset.

YU.P., yU.P. and the Center should see that shouldn't he?
But he still shouldn't be counting. :)
mick

jritchie

Wed Nov 23, 2005 08:42am

Re: It's just wrong.

[/B][/QUOTE]

Sitch: B gets a rebound and A gets it back with momentary control, then B knocks the ball outa A's hand and starts to bring the ball upcourt.

Center doesn't see loss of possession, or doesn't see B fumble the ball before control.
Center blows the whistle cuz he's at 10 while Trail, always on the play, is at 8.

Centers have no bidness counting to 10.
mick [/B][/QUOTE]

Center doesn't ever count, we were talking about the shot clock showing 10 seconds have passed, so he gets it!!! And if the possession was changed the shot clock would of been reset, then when A gets it back after the momentary possession the clock would reset again!! then when it gets to 25 someone better have a whistle!

mick	Wed Nov 23, 2005 09:28am

Re: Re: It's just wrong.

Quote:

Originally posted by jritchie

Sitch: B gets a rebound and A gets it back with momentary control, then B knocks the ball outa A's hand and starts to bring the ball upcourt.

Center doesn't see loss of possession, or doesn't see B fumble the ball before control.
Center blows the whistle cuz he's at 10 while Trail, always on the play, is at 8.

Centers have no bidness counting to 10.
mick [/QUOTE]

Center doesn't ever count, we were talking about the shot clock showing 10 seconds have passed, so he gets it!!! And if the possession was changed the shot clock would of been reset, then when A gets it back after the momentary possession the clock would reset again!! then when it gets to 25 someone better have a whistle! [/QUOTE]

jritchie,
Granted that the NCAA provides a procedure for the Trail to have primary responsibilty and that [from Note] the Center may assume responsibility, I refuse to believe it's a good mechanic.
So why is it in the book? I think it is there merely to give "lip service" of following the philosophy of getting the call right.
From observation, I think I will personally get to 10 (I practice that count too much.) a full 2-3 seconds ahead of most partners [I seem to see about a 1.2-1.3 second count by many officials]. Since I am pretty sure that I will get there first, regardless, I will not show up my partner... until I get to 15.
mick

Camron Rust

Wed Nov 23, 2005 01:14pm

Re: Re: Re: It's just wrong.

Quote:

Originally posted by mick

From observation, I think I will personally get to 10 (I practice that count too much.) a full 2-3 seconds ahead of most partners [I seem to see about a 1.2-1.3 second count by many officials]. Since I am pretty sure that I will get there first, regardless, I will not show up my partner... until I get to 15.
mick

From observation, I think that most officials counts are even slower than you give them credit for. I see many approaching 2 seconds/chop with the typical being more like 1.5

When I call a 10 or 5 count, I often get comments of "wow that was fast". I've timed myself on counts and I can, at rest, usually be within 1 second over a full minute. I regularly check myself against the clock in games when the pressure permits and find my count a little slow in games...usually 6 seconds for a 5 count. If I'm perceived as fast and I measure slow, the others must be really slow.

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