T's

[CLAY]

Need some help..Please explain the ruling

# 15 is called for her 5th foul. The official notifies the coach and then player #15. As #15 leaves the court as she walks past the official who called her 5th foul makes some nasty comments. The official T's her. After the T the player leaves the gym and the official T's her again for leaving the confines of the bench area.

How many indirect T's is the coach assest's ?
Since #15 committed her 5th foul the opposing team was in the double bonus.

How many fouls shots are given?

[deecee]

well shoot 2 for being in the double bonus -- then shoot 4 for her 2 t's and the coach gets 2 indirect -- hell id give the coach 1 direct if he didnt even try to keep the player on the bench -- but for your question 2 indirect on coach -- 6 total free throws and the ball.

But in all honesty try and avoid the second one -- warn the coach that if the player is not back at the bench in 3 seconds it will cost him another T.

[jeffpea]

Clay -- The proper 5th foul reporting procedure, per NFHS is: coach, table (start clock), and then player. Once you have notified the coach of the players 5th foul, the player is then considered bench personnel. Therefore, the first T to the player is also indirectly charged to the head coach (he/she loses the coaching box). Second T for the player results in his/her ejection and 2nd indirect T to the head coach (3 indirect T's for the coach means ejection). As for the FT's, you shoot the proper number for the personal foul, 2 FT's for the first T, and 2 more for the second T (standard administration of ensuing throw-in).

Hope that helps.

[jeffpea]

sorry for the duplication of answers - looks like deecee
beat me to it.

[ThickSkin]

Originally posted by CLAY
After the T the player leaves the gym and the official T's her again for leaving the confines of the bench area.

I don't know about you but I don't believe I would assess a T for this. I know it is a rule but I could care less if he leaves the confines of the bench to go to the locker room. In fact it might be the best thing for him/her. JMO!

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by ThickSkin

I don't know about you but I don't believe I would assess a T for this. I know it is a rule but I could care less if he leaves the confines of the bench to go to the locker room. In fact it might be the best thing for him/her. JMO!

What I've heard before is that players aren't allowed to leave the confines without supervision. This is apparently a liability issue. Coaches should be in on this too. If the player is leaving, and there's no supervision, you must exert some sort of authority, even if it's just to pass the buck to the coach. A T seems like the best way to do that. It might be smart to converse with the coach about it, but I wouldn't warn as deecee suggests. Just say, "Coach, #14 can't leave the area without supervision. Do you have an assistant or a school staff person that can go with her?" Say it quickly and urgently, then T before the kid gets out the door. This way the coach is the one on the hook, not you.

At least this is how I've been told to handle this. Maybe it's just a local thing.

[Snake~eyes]

If a player leaves the "confines of the bench area" then I didn't see it - play-on!

[Nevadaref]

Originally posted by deecee
-- hell id give the coach 1 direct if he didnt even try to keep the player on the bench --

Rule reference? Or are you just making up your own again?

Originally posted by deecee
if the player is not back at the bench in 3 seconds it will cost him another T.

Yet another incorrect understanding of 9-7.

[Camron Rust]

Originally posted by rainmaker


What I've heard before is that players aren't allowed to leave the confines without supervision. This is apparently a liability issue. Coaches should be in on this too. If the player is leaving, and there's no supervision, you must exert some sort of authority, even if it's just to pass the buck to the coach. A T seems like the best way to do that. It might be smart to converse with the coach about it, but I wouldn't warn as deecee suggests. Just say, "Coach, #14 can't leave the area without supervision. Do you have an assistant or a school staff person that can go with her?" Say it quickly and urgently, then T before the kid gets out the door. This way the coach is the one on the hook, not you.

At least this is how I've been told to handle this. Maybe it's just a local thing.

That is not correct. While we're not to send the kid out of the gym, the coach can send them to the locker room along for all we care (per the rules). The issue of supervision is a policy of the school or team, not a rule of the game.

The T for leaving the bench area is to keep a player from going to the baseline and heckling the other team's FT or for keeping a sub from going to the other team's bench during a timeout.

[Nevadaref]

Originally posted by Camron Rust

That is not correct. While we're not to send the kid out of the gym, the coach can send them to the locker room along for all we care (per the rules). The issue of supervision is a policy of the school or team, not a rule of the game.

The T for leaving the bench area is to keep a player from going to the baseline and heckling the other team's FT or for keeping a sub from going to the other team's bench during a timeout.

Camron,
It seems the NFHS has a different opinion on the purpose of that rule.

The NFHS specifically addressed players leaving the bench in the POEs last season.

"The committee is also concerned about bench personnel leaving the bench, sometimes during a live ball. Heading into the hallway to get a drink or sitting up in the stands with friends or family, even for a short period of time, are not authorized reasons unless they are medically related. Coaches must ensure that bench personnel remain on the bench."

The NFHS made it clear that coaches cannot just send players to the lockerroom for all we care per the rules.
Players/team members who are DQ'd are to remain on the team bench per the penalty sections of 10-2 and 10-3. Adults who are ejected are to leave the vicinity per the penalties provided in 10-4 and 10-5.

Furthermore, I don't think that rainmaker is incorrect about this.
I know that our state association has instructed us not to allow kids to go off by themselves when they are out of the game, whether that is by the coach's choice, due to injury, or disqualification.
While that is my state office saying that, I have to believe that the NFHS committee intents for these kids to be supervised as well. I sort of remember them issuing something on the supervision issue too.


[Edited by Nevadaref on Nov 16th, 2005 at 05:44 AM]

[CLAY]

Thank you for your help..by the explaination of the rule you gave, the calling official did everything right.

I don't know if the coach could have stopped the player from leaving the bench she ran past the bench like a bolt of lightning and out of the gym she went.

[Camron Rust]

Originally posted by Nevadaref

Camron,
It seems the NFHS has a different opinion on the purpose of that rule.

The NFHS specifically addressed players leaving the bench in the POEs last season.

"The committee is also concerned about bench personnel leaving the bench, sometimes during a live ball. Heading into the hallway to get a drink or sitting up in the stands with friends or family, even for a short period of time, are not authorized reasons unless they are medically related. Coaches must ensure that bench personnel remain on the bench."

The NFHS made it clear that coaches cannot just send players to the lockerroom for all we care per the rules.
Players/team members who are DQ'd are to remain on the team bench per the penalty sections of 10-2 and 10-3. Adults who are ejected are to leave the vicinity per the penalties provided in 10-4 and 10-5.

Furthermore, I don't think that rainmaker is incorrect about this.
I know that our state association has instructed us not to allow kids to go off by themselves when they are out of the game, whether that is by the coach's choice, due to injury, or disqualification.
While that is my state office saying that, I have to believe that the NFHS committee intents for these kids to be supervised as well. I sort of remember them issuing something on the supervision issue too.

The types of things mentioned in the POE are not relevant to this discussion. The POE says that they don't want players wandering around the perimieter of the court or in the stands or hallways when they've got no reason to do so. It doesn't say anything about the coach sending the player to the lockerroom....supervised or not. If the POE is to apply to this situation, they couldn't even send a player to the lockerroom while supervised.

I agree that the kids should be supervised. However, I don't believe the rules of the game give us jurisdiction over that issue.

[lucky1313]

I don't think the first T could be an indirect on the coach until a sub is beckoned onto the floor. The player with 5 fouls isn't bench personal yet is she??

[M&M Guy]

Originally posted by lucky1313
I don't think the first T could be an indirect on the coach until a sub is beckoned onto the floor. The player with 5 fouls isn't bench personal yet is she??

Once the coach is notified of her 5th foul, she becomes bench personnel. I believe that's the resoning behind notifying the coach before the player - it becomes the coach's responsibility for that player to help avoid any extra "freebie" shots the player might want to get in before getting to the bench.

[ThickSkin]

Originally posted by Snake~eyes
If a player leaves the "confines of the bench area" then I didn't see it - play-on!

I agree. If the coach needs someone to help babysit, he can hire a local. I am there to officiate that game with as little interference as possible! T'ing a kid for leaving the confines of the bench is something the assitant coach can take care of.