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Re: Re: player control?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by bob jenkins
[B]

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Originally posted by xxssmen

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Originally posted by ChuckElias

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Originally posted by deecee
it was a controlled tip....

The "controlled tip" is just as much a myth as "can't catch your own airball". There's no such thing in the rulebook as a controlled tip (or tap, or bat). To have control, a player must be holding or dribbling a live ball inbounds. That's it, that's the only way to have player control.

Lets say A1 shoots and ball does not go in and A2 comes in and follow through with a 1 hand tip and comes down on B1 while B1 has legal guarding position. Since A1 never held the ball is A1 consider in player control?

1) So do we have a player control foul on A1 and wave the basket.

Yes, because A2 was an airborne shooter, not necessarily because there was player control.

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2) Since you say that there is no such thing as a controlled tip do we count the basket and call a loose ball foul on A1 and allow B1 to shoot free throws if in the bonus?

You're describing a "Tap" -- a defined term in 4-41, not a "tip" -- an undefined term commonly used to refer to the jumpers touching the jump ball

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3) A1 get foul during the tip in by B1 andbasket is good, so count the basket and give A1 1 free throw or since A1 was not consider in player control award A1 free throws if in the bonus and still count the basket?

A Tap is considered "in the act of shooting", so count the basket and give one FT.

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I always thought that you can have player control on a try for a goal on a tip or tap.

You can't have it on a tip or a Tap. If you are judging "player control" during the "Tap" then you are really treating it as a Catch (player control) and a Try. This could make a difference if the play happened in the last .3 seconds.

In the rest of the game, the fact that there's no PC on a Tap does not affect any of the shooting or PC foul issues.

There is no player or team control on the following -

dead ball
throw-in
a jump ball
or when the ball is in flight druring a try or tap for a goal.

Re: Re: player control?

Quote:

Originally posted by bob jenkins

Quote:

Originally posted by xxssmen
I always thought that you can have player control on a try for a goal on a tip or tap.

You can't have it on a tip or a Tap.

Are you sure about that, Bob? I thought I remembered a few years ago that this was changed. If an airborne player tapped the ball toward the goal and then fouled a defensive player, this was considered a PC foul. I'll have to go look that one up. . .

Re: Re: Re: player control?

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Originally posted by ChuckElias

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Originally posted by bob jenkins

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Originally posted by xxssmen
I always thought that you can have player control on a try for a goal on a tip or tap.

You can't have it on a tip or a Tap.

Are you sure about that, Bob? I thought I remembered a few years ago that this was changed. If an airborne player tapped the ball toward the goal and then fouled a defensive player, this was considered a PC foul. I'll have to go look that one up. . .

A tap is the same as a try, so A1 is considered an airborne shooter in this case. PC foul extends to the airborne shooter even though he does not have control under fed rules.

IREFU2,

I,m confused now on #3

quote:
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3) A1 get foul during the tip in by B1 andbasket is good, so count the basket and give A1 1 free throw or since A1 was not consider in player control award A1 free throws if in the bonus and still count the basket?
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A1 get foul during the tip in by B1 and basket is good, so count the basket and give A1 1 free throw. Now if u reward A1 a free throw for being foul I would consider A1 is in player control since u are rewarding him a free throw.

since A1 was not consider in player control award A1 free throws if in the bonus and still count the basket?

Now if you say A1 is not in player control and you count the basket. Are you gonna award 2 free throws to A1 if its in "DOUBLE" bonus. So we have an oppourtunity for a 4 point play for A1? Explain that to Team B coach.

As far as a player going back up to tip or tap the ball back in and get foul I will always consider him an airboorne shooter which mean PC applies here.

Now if its not consider PC please explain it to me why it isn't.

Re: Player control?

Quote:

Originally posted by xxssmen
IREFU2,

I,m confused now on #3

quote:
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3) A1 get foul during the tip in by B1 andbasket is good, so count the basket and give A1 1 free throw or since A1 was not consider in player control award A1 free throws if in the bonus and still count the basket?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A1 get foul during the tip in by B1 and basket is good, so count the basket and give A1 1 free throw. Now if u reward A1 a free throw for being foul I would consider A1 is in player control since u are rewarding him a free throw.

since A1 was not consider in player control award A1 free throws if in the bonus and still count the basket?

Now if you say A1 is not in player control and you count the basket. Are you gonna award 2 free throws to A1 if its in "DOUBLE" bonus. So we have an oppourtunity for a 4 point play for A1? Explain that to Team B coach.

As far as a player going back up to tip or tap the ball back in and get foul I will always consider him an airboorne shooter which mean PC applies here.

Now if its not consider PC please explain it to me why it isn't.

When A1 commits the foul, it's a PC foul (4-19-6) because A1 is an airborne shooter (the last part of the rule), not because A1 has PC (see 4-12-1).

When A1 is fouled, it's not a common foul (4-19-2) because A1 was "... tapping for goal" and that includes the airborne shooter (4-41-1)