5 second count in NBA?

[Mark Padgett]

I was flipping channels between hockey and basketball and just caught the end of what appeared to be a 5 second count in the Raptors - Knicks game against the Knicks when they were on offense. Can anyone explain what happened? Thanks.

I know there used to be an "illegal offensive set" violation in the NBA where 4 players were on the weak side above the free throw line. Was this it?

[Richard Ogg]

Sure, Mark, I was watching.

I can't tell you who the players were, but NY brought the ball down and the guard (?) was "defended" by the Raptor -- quite close. The official was right behind the NY guard and started a 5-second count -- very visible! After 5 counts (I counted with him, admittedly out loud) he blew the whistle, held up the 5 digits, and they went the other way.

I must say I have rarely seen this called in the NBA, but generally they break off in time. Dumb offensive play to get caught on that.

I don't watch enough NBA to recognize the illegal defense; we're encouraged NOT to watch NBA during the season so as not to contaminate our judgment.

[Dewey1]

The 5 second call was against Glenn Rice and it really had nothing to do with being closely guarded. In the NBA once you turn your back to the basket, with the ball and are below the foul-line you only have 5 seconds to make your offensive more. This rule is commonly called the Charles Barkley rule because he would get the ball on the block and stick out he big backside and just dribble the ball for 10 to 15 seconds before shooting. The idea is to speed up the game and get rid of the "bum" ball as it is called. I was surprized to see it called though in the playoffs. It is rarely ever called period.

Though even stranger was the "illegal offense" call made against the Raptors earlier in the game. They isolated Vince on a wing and then had all 4 of their other players on the other side of the hoop above the 3-point line. I had never seen that called before. The announcer even said that the reason Lenny Wilkens was arguing was because he did not understand what the call was. LOL.

[Richard Ogg]

Originally posted by Dewey1
... once you turn your back to the basket....

Hmm. My recollection was that Glenn was facing the defender and the basket. In fact, this is supported by him not seeing the official counting, because the official was standing right behind him. Now I wish I had taped the game.

[Kelvin green]

The illegal offense call as you refer to it is an illegal isolation call. It is not called often. I know it was called a few times on the Jazz when Mark Eaton played. I am sure there are others, and the 5 second backdown call has been around a couple of years!

[BktBallRef]

Actually, if his back or side is to the basket, the count starts. Basically, he has to be facing the basket. It's also the first time that I've ever seen it called. It appeared to me that the officials were specifically looking for a possible violation by Rice. Ed F. Rush started the count immediately.

However, I have seen isolation called on the offense before. If Carter was isolated on one side of the floor and at least 3 teammates are positioned above the tip of the circle on the weakside, it's a violation.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by Mark Padgett
I was flipping channels between hockey and basketball ...

Hey Mark, I'm impressed you could tell the difference
playoff NBA & playoff NHL!

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by Dan_ref

Hey Mark, I'm impressed you could tell the difference
playoff NBA & playoff NHL!

OUCH! Whaddya think? Should Juwan Howard have been ejected?

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by BktBallRef

OUCH! Whaddya think? Should Juwan Howard have been ejected?

Nah, just a 2 minute minor (or maybe just send him back to
Michigan

[Mark Padgett]

Hey Mark, I'm impressed you could tell the difference
playoff NBA & playoff NHL!

OUCH! Whaddya think? Should Juwan Howard have been ejected?

Of course, I don't have the same visual perspective watching on television as the official on the floor has, but since you asked - it looked like a flagrant level 1 to me. He really did make a quasi-attempt at the ball.

BTW - here's the latest on what's going to happen with the Trailblazers here in Portland. They're keeping Rasheed Wallace, firing Mike Dunleavy and replacing him with former coach P.J. Carlismo, trading to get Latrelle Sprewell from the Knicks and then having the team join the NHL.

Or maybe the WWF.

[BktBallRef]

Might I suggest the XFL!

[Mark Padgett]

I forgot one thing - Bobby Knight as assistant coach.

[DrakeM]

Actually, the isolation violation is for 3 players or
more above the tip of the circle on the weakside.
And I'm surprised Mark, that you made the statement,
that because Howard made a "Quasi-attempt" to play the ball,
it should have been only a Flagrant 1. Sounds like a coach.;-)
A Flagrant 2 usually calls itself. And when Derek Anderson
went "*** over tea-kettle", that "called itself." IMHO of course.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by DrakeM
Actually, the isolation violation is for 3 players or
more above the tip of the circle on the weakside.

Actually, this is exactly what I said in my first post.

[DrakeM]

Actually, you're right!
Sorry I missed it.