Watching the Scoreboard - Page 2

JRutledge · #16 (**permalink**) Mon Oct 31, 2005, 04:55pm

Juulie,

I can tell you there are varsity games where someone is not qualified to work the table. This varies from game to game. The level is not relevant because the JH School might have someone that knows exactly what to do and I go to a varsity game and no one knows what to do. The ADs pick the person to work the table and many times they do not pick the right person. So level is irrelevant. Some of the biggest goofs I have seen in my career were made by varsity table personnel.

Peace

rainmaker · #17 (**permalink**) Mon Oct 31, 2005, 05:11pm

Quote:

Originally posted by JRutledge
Juulie,

I can tell you there are varsity games where someone is not qualified to work the table. This varies from game to game. The level is not relevant because the JH School might have someone that knows exactly what to do and I go to a varsity game and no one knows what to do. The ADs pick the person to work the table and many times they do not pick the right person. So level is irrelevant. Some of the biggest goofs I have seen in my career were made by varsity table personnel.

Peace

I see. You're using the word level in a different way from me. I didn't just mean age of players (varsity being the oldest, down to ms being the youngest). I also meant that at the really scrappy varsity games, things might not be very good. ( I did a varsity volleyball match the other day where at game time, there still wasn't any one at the table, and when they finally found someone, we had to give instructions. It was a very low level of play, even though it was varsity.) As I go down in age around here, it also gets less and less dependable. There are a few MS where there's a good table person, but not very many.

Ref_in_Rehab · #18 (**permalink**) Mon Oct 31, 2005, 05:29pm

Count me in on the watcher side of the board-

The closer the game is, the more I watch as well after made baskets, fouls, etc. Not staring at the thing of course, but to me, it's part of game management. Keeping an eye on the board as one team approaches the bonus can help prevent a correctable error situation, partner communication, yada yada yada.

JRutledge · #19 (**permalink**) Mon Oct 31, 2005, 05:41pm

Quote:

Originally posted by rainmaker

I see. You're using the word level in a different way from me. I didn't just mean age of players (varsity being the oldest, down to ms being the youngest). I also meant that at the really scrappy varsity games, things might not be very good. ( I did a varsity volleyball match the other day where at game time, there still wasn't any one at the table, and when they finally found someone, we had to give instructions. It was a very low level of play, even though it was varsity.) As I go down in age around here, it also gets less and less dependable. There are a few MS where there's a good table person, but not very many.

I was talking about level of the players (varsity--JH). That still does not change my opinion of what could be a problem. I only care about the game time on the clock from my point of view. After that, I have a good sense of how many fouls are called in a game. I know that many times the foul totals are wrong so I do not worry about those numbers on the scoreboard. Of course when the ball is dead I will make note of a few things. I just do not spend a lot of time worrying about it.

Peace

ChuckElias · #20 (**permalink**) Mon Oct 31, 2005, 06:35pm

Quote:

Originally posted by rainmaker

Quote:

Originally posted by ChuckElias
But usually, a scoreboard error is just b/c the guy on the clock didn't put up a point for a made FT, and it's very simple to correct, even at lower level games.

I guess I should start reffing in Massachusetts, instead of Oregon!!

Juulie, you know I'm not picking on you. I'm not commenting on your officiating abilities in any way.

My point was not about where I work, but how the situation is handled. Especially at the MS and JV level, a scorebook/scoreboard discrepency should take about 30 seconds to fix.

Coach: "The score's wrong!! We should have 2 more points!!"

Tweet!!

Official to scorer: "Did you miss a basket?"

Scorer: "I don't think so."

Official: "Gotta go by the official book, Coach. Scoreboard's right. Let's play."

Or, if the scorer says there was a mistake, you just tell the coach it's under control and make the change.

In my experience, that's all it takes. If the coach has his own scorer then you take an extra 2 minutes and compare the books. If you find the discrepency, fix it. If not, play on.

I once did a HS JV game in which the scoreboard, the home book and the visitors' book all showed different scores for the visiting team. We took 2 minutes to compare the books, couldn't find anything wrong and changed the board and the visitors' book to match the home book. It honestly took all of about 2 or 3 minutes.

As always, JMO.

rainmaker · #21 (**permalink**) Mon Oct 31, 2005, 06:39pm

Quote:

Originally posted by ChuckElias

Quote:

Originally posted by rainmaker

Quote:

Originally posted by ChuckElias
But usually, a scoreboard error is just b/c the guy on the clock didn't put up a point for a made FT, and it's very simple to correct, even at lower level games.

I guess I should start reffing in Massachusetts, instead of Oregon!!

Juulie, you know I'm not picking on you. I'm not commenting on your officiating abilities in any way.

My point was not about where I work, but how the situation is handled. Especially at the MS and JV level, a scorebook/scoreboard discrepency should take about 30 seconds to fix.

Coach: "The score's wrong!! We should have 2 more points!!"

Tweet!!

Official to scorer: "Did you miss a basket?"

Scorer: "I don't think so."

Official: "Gotta go by the official book, Coach. Scoreboard's right. Let's play."

Or, if the scorer says there was a mistake, you just tell the coach it's under control and make the change.

In my experience, that's all it takes. If the coach has his own scorer then you take an extra 2 minutes and compare the books. If you find the discrepency, fix it. If not, play on.

I once did a HS JV game in which the scoreboard, the home book and the visitors' book all showed different scores for the visiting team. We took 2 minutes to compare the books, couldn't find anything wrong and changed the board and the visitors' book to match the home book. It honestly took all of about 2 or 3 minutes.

As always, JMO.

Chuck -- I didn't think you were picking on me. What I meant was that it sounds as though you have better table people than we do.

I also agree that these mistakes don't take long to fix -- if you're paying attention, and address them asap. That's why I keep a close eye on the scorebaord: The problems never get out of hand.

Dan_ref · #22 (**permalink**) Mon Oct 31, 2005, 08:07pm

Quote:

Originally posted by ChuckElias

Or, if the scorer says there was a mistake, you just tell the coach it's under control and make the change.

It might be under control Chuck.

It's just not under your control, is it?

Rich · #23 (**permalink**) Mon Oct 31, 2005, 08:09pm

Quote:

Originally posted by rainmaker

Quote:

Originally posted by JRutledge

Quote:

Originally posted by rainmaker
I expect at the level you work, it's not usually a problem. At lower level games, you really have to watch closely. The table people are either new, completely indifferent, or busy with other things. If the scoreboard is wrong, it triggers parents and coaches (and sometimes players) to start yelling. Then even if the book was right to begin with, the bookkeeper gets confused. If you see that the scoreboard is wrong, you can get it fixed right away. If this happens a couple of times in the first quarter, or the first half, then when you're down to the wire, you've got the bugs out of the system. Assuming you have the same table people for the whole game.

The level has nothing to do with it. You cannot expect every bit of information is going to be correct all the time as it relates to the scoreboard. If something is wrong, I am not going to stop everything to correct it.

The level has a lot to do with it around here. MS games, some schools have a teacher or a committed parent, most have whoever they can drag in from the hallways, usually untrained, usually unhappy, usually unconcerned. At the varsity level, there's usually someone with some experience and some attention to detail.

If something IS wrong on the scoreboard, I don't stop everything to correct it (unless it has to do with the clock starting or stopping), but I'm sure going to be sure that it gets fixed asap. I DO expect every bit of information to be correct all the time, and I rely on that for my own keeping track. When it's off, I want it fixed.

I just don't think that's the proper level of attention. I want to avoid a correctable error and make sure that the clock is running when it's supposed to be. Other than that, I'll get it sorted out.

RookieDude · #24 (**permalink**) Mon Oct 31, 2005, 09:01pm

Watching the scoreboard may make your job of officiating easier...

But, IMO (and my assigner's), it doesn't look good.

Having said that...I'll try to pick my times to "glance" or "peek" at the scoreboard...times when I will be less likely to be seen by anyone.

Kelvin green · #25 (**permalink**) Mon Oct 31, 2005, 09:54pm

I would prefer not to call it scoreboard watching but game awareness.

Knowing what is going on the game saves you alot. I have been to camps where the evaluator will ask you at at a time out before you can look at the board, what the team foul situation is, who is in bonus, how many time outs left, time on the clock...

If you do a game with a shot clock its even that much more important.

KNowing what's on the board will save you when people run clocks when they are not supposed to. Or stop them when they are not. This is aprticularlt trye when you get towards the last couple of minutes in each quarter.

IT looks a lot better when the coach is yelling about a clock that you can say that at the FT we had 1:14 on clock, we came down the floor in 6 seconds when I had a foul in back court, clock is et at 1:08, then guessing and making it up!

Nevadaref · #26 (**permalink**) Tue Nov 01, 2005, 04:50am

You should watch the scoreboard the entire game.

How else are you going to make sure that the foul totals stay even and that the home team always has more points?

You also have to be aware of what the score is and how much time is left, so that you know when that pivotal call the vociferous coach's team really needs arises.

Kelvin green · #27 (**permalink**) Tue Nov 01, 2005, 08:33am

Scoreboard helps when...

I have had two games where the foul count was somthing like Team A 3 team fouls and Team B 5 fouls.

Team A player complains and says ref you gotta call it both ways or on both ends. I tell him to look at the scorboard and that If you want me to even them up the next two fouls are on your team!

In one game the captain grabbed the kid and told him to shut-up!