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-   -   player/team control (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/22867-player-team-control.html)

thumpferee Wed Oct 26, 2005 10:10am

It is my understanding, and to my delight, the NFHS is gearing toward the the NCAA Rules and has a new rule change regarding player/team control (non shooting)fouls this year. My questions are concerning when team control actually exists.

I would like to ask you all for your interps on two situations:

A1 has the ball oob for a throw in. A2 and B2 are called for simultaneous fouls. Both are in the bonus.

A1 has the ball oob for a throw in. A2 pushes B2 in order to get free to receive the throw in from A1 and is called for a foul.

Referencing rule 4,sec 5-6 I believe.

It seems there is a difference between being in bounds and out regarding team control. Am I missing something or just looking too deep into this?

walter Wed Oct 26, 2005 11:06am

NFHS is still no team control on a throw-in, jump ball, or tip, tap, try.

jritchie Wed Oct 26, 2005 11:27am

nfhs no team control on throw in
 
Quote:

Originally posted by thumpferee
It is my understanding, and to my delight, the NFHS is gearing toward the the NCAA Rules and has a new rule change regarding player/team control (non shooting)fouls this year. My questions are concerning when team control actually exists.

I would like to ask you all for your interps on two situations:

A1 has the ball oob for a throw in. A2 and B2 are called for simultaneous fouls. Both are in the bonus.

A1 has the ball oob for a throw in. A2 pushes B2 in order to get free to receive the throw in from A1 and is called for a foul.

Referencing rule 4,sec 5-6 I believe.

It seems there is a difference between being in bounds and out regarding team control. Am I missing something or just looking too deep into this?

So in sit 1, you report the fouls and go with ap arrow oob
and in sit 2, you report foul on A2 and B2 shoots bonus free throw

ChuckElias Wed Oct 26, 2005 12:07pm

Re: nfhs no team control on throw in
 
Quote:

Originally posted by jritchie
Quote:

Originally posted by thumpferee
A1 has the ball oob for a throw in. A2 and B2 are called for simultaneous fouls. Both are in the bonus.
So in sit 1, you report the fouls and go with ap arrow oob

I'm going to disagree here. You report the fouls and continue at the POI, which in this case was Team A's throw-in.

Tommy, you can only have a team control foul when there is, in fact, team control. In NFHS, there is no team control during a throw-in. Remember, team control is established when player control (holding or dribbling a live ball inbounds) is established and continues until a try is released, until the other team gains control, or until the ball becomes dead.

jritchie Wed Oct 26, 2005 12:11pm

sorry, chuck is correct
 
simultaneous fouls on A and B, is poi

assignmentmaker Wed Oct 26, 2005 06:28pm

Re: Re: nfhs no team control on throw in
 
Quote:

Originally posted by ChuckElias
Quote:

Originally posted by jritchie
Quote:

Originally posted by thumpferee
A1 has the ball oob for a throw in. A2 and B2 are called for simultaneous fouls. Both are in the bonus.
So in sit 1, you report the fouls and go with ap arrow oob

I'm going to disagree here. You report the fouls and continue at the POI, which in this case was Team A's throw-in.

Tommy, you can only have a team control foul when there is, in fact, team control. In NFHS, there is no team control during a throw-in. Remember, team control is established when player control (holding or dribbling a live ball inbounds) is established and continues until a try is released, until the other team gains control, or until the ball becomes dead.

Chuck, when does a point-of-interruption exist, or not exist? Please ammend this as needed!

There's a P.O.I. if:
1. there's player or team control;
2. throw-in is pending or underway;
3. foul-shot is pending


There isn't a P.O.I if:
1. a shot has been released and its fate is unknown;
2. a jump ball has become alive but control has not yet been established;
3. a foul shot, with players in the marked lane spaces, is missed



assignmentmaker Wed Oct 26, 2005 06:48pm

I gotta change . . .
 
There isn't a P.O.I if:

3. a foul shot, with players in the marked lane spaces, legally misses and control has not yet been established.

assignmentmaker Wed Oct 26, 2005 06:51pm

Or you could use the definition . . . but it's a good thought exercise!
 
EOM

assignmentmaker Wed Oct 26, 2005 06:54pm

Re: Re: Re: nfhs no team control on throw in
 
Quote:

Originally posted by assignmentmaker
Quote:

Originally posted by ChuckElias
Quote:

Originally posted by jritchie
Quote:

Originally posted by thumpferee
A1 has the ball oob for a throw in. A2 and B2 are called for simultaneous fouls. Both are in the bonus.
So in sit 1, you report the fouls and go with ap arrow oob

I'm going to disagree here. You report the fouls and continue at the POI, which in this case was Team A's throw-in.

Tommy, you can only have a team control foul when there is, in fact, team control. In NFHS, there is no team control during a throw-in. Remember, team control is established when player control (holding or dribbling a live ball inbounds) is established and continues until a try is released, until the other team gains control, or until the ball becomes dead.

Chuck, when does a point-of-interruption exist, or not exist? Please ammend this as needed!

There's a P.O.I. if:
1. there's player or team control;
2. throw-in is pending or underway;
3. foul-shot is pending


There isn't a P.O.I if:
1. a shot has been released and its fate is unknown;
2. a jump ball has become alive but control has not yet been established;
3. a foul shot, with players in the marked lane spaces, is missed



"Pending or underway" may be a nice form of "when the stoppage occurred during this activity or if a team is entitled to such".

bob jenkins Thu Oct 27, 2005 08:12am

Re: Re: Re: nfhs no team control on throw in
 
Quote:

Originally posted by assignmentmaker
Chuck, when does a point-of-interruption exist, or not exist?


The question makes no sense.

There's always a POI. It's not always used (only after a double foul, simultaneous foul, accidental whistle, carrectable error, ...) and sometimes the POI is an AP throw-in.

jritchie Thu Oct 27, 2005 08:43am

Re: Re: Re: Re: nfhs no team control on throw in
 


[/B][/QUOTE]



"carrectable" [/B][/QUOTE]

where is spelling guy when you need him??? :)
sorry bob, couldn't resist!


Jurassic Referee Thu Oct 27, 2005 09:52am

Quote:

Originally posted by bob jenkins
Quote:

Originally posted by assignmentmaker
Chuck, when does a point-of-interruption exist, or not exist?


The question makes no sense.


Tsk, tsk, tsk,......

Even though I'm taking a chance by posting at being inserted into the "curmudgeonly excess" bracket...again, it's very obvious that was one of those deep metaphysical questions- like "how many angels can dance on a pinhead?".

Or...... maybe it's question #46 on the IAABO exam.

rainmaker Thu Oct 27, 2005 10:56am

Quote:

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Even though I'm taking a chance by posting at being inserted into the "curmudgeonly excess" bracket...again, it's very obvious that was one of those deep metaphysical questions- like "how many angels can dance on a pinhead?".

Metaphysical? Sheez, Jurassic, you are old indeed!! No one has said that word since Derrida was in college. My favorite is, "What is the sound of one hand clapping?" And on a more mainline note, "Can God make a rock so big that God can't move it?"

ChuckElias Thu Oct 27, 2005 11:24am

Quote:

Originally posted by rainmaker
Metaphysical? No one has said that word since Derrida was in college.
The problem is, according to Derrida's writings, if he ever did say "metaphysical", it's impossible for anyone else to know what he meant by saying it. Great theory. :rolleyes:

Jurassic Referee Thu Oct 27, 2005 11:27am

Quote:

Originally posted by rainmaker
Quote:

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Even though I'm taking a chance by posting at being inserted into the "curmudgeonly excess" bracket...again, it's very obvious that was one of those deep metaphysical questions- like "how many angels can dance on a pinhead?".

Metaphysical? Sheez, Jurassic, you are old indeed!! No one has said that word since Derrida was in college. My favorite is, "What is the sound of one hand clapping?" And on a more mainline note, "Can God make a rock so big that God can't move it?"

This answered my favorite metaphysical question.....

http://www.sodamnfunny.com/Picture/Animal/BEAR.jpg

It's true, it's true.....


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