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  #31 (permalink)  
Old Tue Oct 25, 2005, 05:02pm
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Oh, my !

Quote:
Originally posted by M&M Guy
If I look at a player on the bench, and I think they look available, should I order them in the game, even though they're not eligible to play? For example, in grade school games in IL, the IESA (IL Elementary School Assoc.) has a limit on the total number of quarters a player can play in day (I believe it's 6 or 7). ...If a coach tells me the player is not available, who am I to argue?
M&M,
Not a good example.
With all that *thinking* and *believing*, I can tell you don't work those levels, or else you would know those limitations of play.
mick


"Baaaad sample!" - Charles Rogers
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old Tue Oct 25, 2005, 05:21pm
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Re: Oh, my !

Quote:
Originally posted by mick
Quote:
Originally posted by M&M Guy
If I look at a player on the bench, and I think they look available, should I order them in the game, even though they're not eligible to play? For example, in grade school games in IL, the IESA (IL Elementary School Assoc.) has a limit on the total number of quarters a player can play in day (I believe it's 6 or 7). ...If a coach tells me the player is not available, who am I to argue?
M&M,
Not a good example.
With all that *thinking* and *believing*, I can tell you don't work those levels, or else you would know those limitations of play.
mick


"Baaaad sample!" - Charles Rogers
Well, actually, I worked one last year early in the season. (Ok, although it hasn't been often.) But, the reason I included that example is because the officials do not have any jurisdiction over those rules. We don't need to know what the number of quarters a player is allowed to play. Even if we did, we can't tell a player to play or not play based on those rules. It is an issue only between the schools and the IESA. If there is a player eligibility issue, a school can file an appeal, but the game officials cannot make any determinations, and there are no game penalties prescribed. The IESA told us to use the NFHS rules during games. So, I guess my point is if I see a player on the bench, and that player is "available" in the context of that game, I could be forcing a forfeit if I send that player out, even though the coach doesn't want to play him/her.
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old Wed Oct 26, 2005, 11:35am
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Let me throw in a wrinkle...

The issue I think is that is this player now not available for the REMAINDER of the game?

I saw a sitch once where the coach pulled his player for being disrespectful etc... and then when he had a chance to win the game, put him back in! I believe if the coach makes him unavailable once (i.e., sends out 4), then he has made him unavailable for the rest of the game. Unless, of course there is an injury...But even then we are on shaky ground...Can the injured player return?

Joe
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old Wed Oct 26, 2005, 11:56am
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Re: Let me throw in a wrinkle...

Quote:
Originally posted by JosephG678
The issue I think is that is this player now not available for the REMAINDER of the game?

I saw a sitch once where the coach pulled his player for being disrespectful etc... and then when he had a chance to win the game, put him back in! I believe if the coach makes him unavailable once (i.e., sends out 4), then he has made him unavailable for the rest of the game. Unless, of course there is an injury...But even then we are on shaky ground...Can the injured player return?

Joe
Joe,
It depends on the injury [eg.,losing consiousness] as to whether the kid can return, or not.
If the fifth, and only available player is bleeding, she leaves, she gets a bandaid and goes back in.
mick
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old Mon Oct 31, 2005, 05:37pm
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As a coach (which I am sometimes) it is easy to get around this - "Sorry Ref, this player is injured, I can't let him back on to the court"

Anyone here going to argue with this and order an "injured" player onto the court?
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old Mon Oct 31, 2005, 06:43pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by zebraman
Quote:
Originally posted by mick
Quote:
Originally posted by Ref in PA
Could not a coach strike a name in the scorebook? It would cost him a T but now that number is not in the book.
Adding a number costs a "T", but deducting a number shows no penalty.
Why would anyone penalize an entire team because a coach wants to take care of bidness?
mick
Anyone ever play 5 on 4? It's no fun for anyone. Boring for the team with 5 and frustrating for the team with 4. You're penalizing all 9 remaining kids if you let the teams play 5 on 4.... If the coach says the kid is hurt, then he can pull it off. Hopefully the coach is more honest than that and hopefully he can figure out how to discipline the one kid without ruining the fun for the rest of his team (and the other team).

Z

You may find it boring but in the 1963-64 season I witnessed second most amazing comeback in a H.S. baseketball game I have ever season. The Visitor's were undefeated (and favored to win the league championship) and the Home team had been picked to finish second in the league. With just under three minutes to play, a player from Team V fouled out. Team V had no eligible players on the bench. Coach V (an OhioHSAA registered basketball coach) wanted to pull a jr. varsity player out of the stands and add him to the roster at the expense of a technical foul (and we all know that a team could do this even during the 1963-64 season), but the officials would not let him do it. At the time Team V was losing by four points. Play resumed and with still over two minutes to play another Team V player fouled out. Team V was now down to three players and was still losing by four points. From that point on Team V outscored Team H by six points to zero to win the game by four points. I was in the seventh grade at the time and the Team V coach was my next door neighbor. I would play varsity basketball for him and my sister and I would both play varsity golf for him. He was also a charter member of the Trumbull Co. Bkb. Off. Assn. (he was a member of the TCBOA when the game was played and both officials were also members of the TCBOA) and at 01:00am in the morning after the game the R in the game called him at home to tell him that he and his partner had made a mistake in not letting him add a player to the roster at the expense of of a technical foul.

I became a member of the TCBOA when I started officiating and still am a member.

It was an exciting game to say the least.

MTD, Sr.
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old Mon Oct 31, 2005, 06:57pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
... Team V was now down to three players and was still losing by four points. From that point on Team V outscored Team H by six points to zero to win the game by four points.

MTD, Sr.
Still using middle school math? Correct me if I'm wrong, but if you're down by four and then outscore the other team 6-0, you would only win by 2. Something I'm missing here?
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old Mon Oct 31, 2005, 07:02pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Whistles & Stripes
Quote:
Originally posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
... Team V was now down to three players and was still losing by four points. From that point on Team V outscored Team H by six points to zero to win the game by four points.

MTD, Sr.
Still using middle school math? Correct me if I'm wrong, but if you're down by four and then outscore the other team 6-0, you would only win by 2. Something I'm missing here?
Mark forgot to add that he was in the seventh grade for the fourth time.
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old Mon Oct 31, 2005, 08:30pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Mark forgot to add that he was in the seventh grade for the fourth time.
Whadyu know about modern math?
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old Mon Oct 31, 2005, 08:32pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by mick
Quote:
Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Mark forgot to add that he was in the seventh grade for the fourth time.
Whadyu know about modern math?
Well, I know if you're down 4 and you score 6, you're gonna win by 3.
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  #41 (permalink)  
Old Mon Oct 31, 2005, 08:58pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Quote:
Originally posted by mick
Quote:
Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Mark forgot to add that he was in the seventh grade for the fourth time.
Whadyu know about modern math?
Well, I know if you're down 4 and you score 6, you're gonna win by 3.

Yabut that's you an' me.
What about the real world?
mick
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old Tue Nov 01, 2005, 11:14pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Whistles & Stripes
Quote:
Originally posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
... Team V was now down to three players and was still losing by four points. From that point on Team V outscored Team H by six points to zero to win the game by four points.

MTD, Sr.
Still using middle school math? Correct me if I'm wrong, but if you're down by four and then outscore the other team 6-0, you would only win by 2. Something I'm missing here?
Clearly Mark was using metric maths - that's why I didn't spot the mistake
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