count it or not?

[elecref]

Time is about to expire in the second quarter when Al releases a try for goal from near A's basket. B1 jumps to block the shot and A2 also jumps. Just after A1 releases the ball the horn sounds to end the quarter.There after,A2 touches the ball outside the cylinder, and still in its upward flight. The ball goes through the basket. Ruling: Goal counts.


Thanks for your help.

[joseph2493]

Originally posted by elecref
Time is about to expire in the second quarter when Al releases a try for goal from near A's basket. B1 jumps to block the shot and A2 also jumps. Just after A1 releases the ball the horn sounds to end the quarter.There after,A2 touches the ball outside the cylinder, and still in its upward flight. The ball goes through the basket. Ruling: Goal counts.


Thanks for your help.

When time expires the period ends when the try or tap ends.

When the ball was touched by A2 the try ended...no points scored because time had already expired...

[elecref]

is there a rules reference for a teammate touching a try for goal as tmie expires and thus resulting in a deal ball? i have not been able to locate it.

[joseph2493]

I don't have my books in front of me, but I'm basing my ruling on these facts...

and I may be wrong but here me all the way out before ignoring the line of thought

A1 releases the ball from outside the arch...

A2 touches the ball from inside the arch then it becomes a two point try...now that would me A1's try ended with A2 touching it and A2's try has now began...

because of this thought bring it into your play...A1 shoots and A2 touches one try ends and the next begins...?

In this case the ball became dead when the new try began because the clock has already expired...

[elecref]

maybe i am using too much logic. i understand that the try ends when it is successful, unsuccessful, touches the floor or becomes dead. i understand that we have a live ball in the air. so i am just trying to gain a better understanding on what makes the try end in this situation and thus the ball becoming dead? the only thing that i can use is the fact that the period end with the sounding of the horn and thus since a teammate touched the ball after the horn sounds, the ball becomes dead. any help will be appreciated.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by elecref
Time is about to expire in the second quarter when Al releases a try for goal from near A's basket. B1 jumps to block the shot and A2 also jumps. Just after A1 releases the ball the horn sounds to end the quarter.There after,A2 touches the ball outside the cylinder, and still in its upward flight. The ball goes through the basket. Ruling: Goal counts.

Rule 6-7NOTE--"If A1's try or tap is legally touched in flight, the goal counts if made, if the horn sounds before or after the legal touching.

A2 legally touched the ball after the horn sounded. Why wouldn't you count the goal?

[Edited by Jurassic Referee on Oct 13th, 2005 at 05:20 PM]

[elecref]

i agree. i just do not understand why you would cancel a goal when it was a legal try and in flight before the horn sounded, even though touched by a teammate.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by elecref
i agree. i just do not understand why you would cancel a goal when it was a legal try and in flight before the horn sounded, even though touched by a teammate.

Well, that's the rule now. It wasn't always that way though. About 25 years or so ago, a try did end if it was touched after the horn sounded. I had that exact call a year before the rule changed. High school varsity game....visiting team B leading by 1 in the 4th.....A1 shoots......horn sounds....B1 then barely gets a finger-tip on the ball right at the top on the way up....ball goes in..... home crowd goes wild.....I (trail) wave the shot off and head for the hills.....home crowd goes wilder- as does their coach.

[joseph2493]

A2 touched it but it ended one try and began another...

A2 can touch the ball, but how can you allow the second shot to count

OK: Let's say we do count the goal...do we count it as two (2) points as in Rule 5 Sec 2 Art 1...? (if the original shot was a three)

[Edited by joseph2493 on Oct 14th, 2005 at 09:21 AM]

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by joseph2493
1) A2 touched it but it ended one try and began another...

2) A2 can touch the ball, but how can you allow the second shot to count

OK: Let's say we do count the goal...do we count it as two (2) points as in Rule 5 Sec 2 Art 1...?

1)Completely wrong. A legal touch by any player does not end a try. Rule 4-41-4. There never was a second try.

2)By rule, there is NO second shot. The first shot never ended as per R4-41-4.

3) Yes, if the touching by the teammate was inside the arc. If the touching by a teammate was outside the arc, it's a 3. Case book play 5.2.1SitC spells out the different scenarios.

Joseph, the language in R6-7NOTE is straightforward. It applies directly to elecref's original question. Your answer was wrong.

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee


Joseph, the language in R6-7NOTE is straightforward. It applies directly to elecref's original question. Your answer was wrong.

Joseph, you might be envisioning a slightly different play -- you might have A2 TAPping the ball, not TOUCHing the ball. (see 4-41 for the definition of TAP).

In that case, it is, I think, a separate try and, although not covered, I'd rule the first try ended.

[Camron Rust]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

1)Completely wrong. A legal touch by any player does not end a try. Rule 4-41-4. There never was a second try.

2)By rule, there is NO second shot. The first shot never ended as per R4-41-4.

3) Yes, if the touching by the teammate was inside the arc. If the touching by a teammate was outside the arc, it's a 3. Case book play 5.2.1SitC spells out the different scenarios.

Joseph, the language in R6-7NOTE is straightforward. It applies directly to elecref's original question. Your answer was wrong.

So, looks like another irrational iconsistency here...

A1 shoots a 3, A2 touches it inside the arc...it counts as a two. It seems like this means A2's touch is the start of a new shot. If not, why is it not a 3?