Almost a held ball, or almost a travel?

[ChrisSportsFan]

Originally posted by Smitty
I'm just answering the question as it was written. What I'd do in real life depends on the scenario. Isn't splitting hairs what we all do best here? Give me a break.

Then split away!
Where would you like for me to put your break?

[Smitty]

Originally posted by ChrisSportsFan

Then split away!
Where would you like for me to put your break?

So then I ask you, as written what is the correct call? Not necessarily what you'd do, but the correct call by rule based on the situation as written?

I don't want to do the splits all by myself...

[ChrisSportsFan]

Because 2 players on opposing teams had ahold of the ball at the same time, I'm calling a held ball.

The only reason the held ball wasn't already called before the travel is because the primary official had a patient whistle as he knows 2 HS boys will rarely allow someone to tie them up and it's quit probable that one player will rip it away.

[Smitty]

Originally posted by mick

Personally, in this situation, I do not call a held ball as soon as possible. Unlike preventing the release of a pass, or release of a shot, seeing a player cleanly taking the ball away from an opponent requires strength, speed and athleticism.

The immediate jump ball, IMO, diminishes the advantage of being better skilled. ... But it certainly is the easy way to make the call.

mick

Now you're just being a tease.

So what would the result of the whole play be in your eyes?

[mick]

Originally posted by IREFU2
His initial post said they where "firmly" holding the ball. I would get in there with the JUMP ASAP!

Personally, in this situation, I do not call a held ball as soon as possible. Unlike preventing the release of a pass, or release of a shot, a player cleanly taking the ball away from an opponent requires strength, speed and athleticism.

The immediate jump ball, IMO, diminishes the advantage of being better skilled. ... But it certainly is the easy way to make the call.

mick

[mick]

Originally posted by Smitty

Now you're just being a tease.

So what would the result of the whole play be in your eyes?

I seek consensus, Smitty.
mick

[ChuckElias]

Mick,

How did Smitty quote your post 2 minutes before you posted it?!?!

BTW, I'm still going with held ball.

[Smitty]

Originally posted by mick

I seek consensus, Smitty.
mick

Then I think I'm screwed - looks like I'm the only one who would even consider calling a travel in this situation. Personally I think there are too many quick-whistled held-ball calls. Sure, someone could get hurt or pissed off if you let them struggle for a couple seconds, but how many times have you whistled one dead just as one player has wrestled the ball away? I'm sticking with a travel if, in my opinion, the ball hasn't been held long enough to warrant a held-ball call.

[mick]

Originally posted by ChuckElias
Mick,

How did Smitty quote your post 2 minutes before you posted it?!?!

BTW, I'm still going with held ball.

I deleted and reposted, because I didn't want Mr. Grammar all over my back. (ie., seeing a player cleanly taking the ball away from an opponent [does not necessarily require] strength, speed and athleticism.
mick

[mick]

Originally posted by Smitty

Then I think I'm screwed - looks like I'm the only one who would even consider calling a travel in this situation. Personally I think there are too many quick-whistled held-ball calls. Sure, someone could get hurt or pissed off if you let them struggle for a couple seconds, but how many times have you whistled one dead just as one player has wrestled the ball away? I'm sticking with a travel if, in my opinion, the ball hasn't been held long enough to warrant a held-ball call.

No so, Smitty.
I could see a traveling violation.
mick

[mick]

Originally posted by ChuckElias
BTW, I'm still going with held ball.

Chuck,
And the rationale could be that since A1 could not rip the ball away without traveling, then it must have been [ex post facto] a held ball?
mick

[SamIAm]

Loose ball...A1 and B1 both pick up ball with neither one trying to take the ball from the other, both holding the ball at arms length. They both take off running in the same direction. Both have the ball, neither using undue force. What do you got?

[mick]

Originally posted by SamIAm
Loose ball...A1 and B1 both pick up ball with neither one trying to take the ball from the other, both holding the ball at arms length. They both take off running in the same direction. Both have the ball, neither using undue force. What do you got?

Double-dual violation, SamIAm.
Blow it dead and give it to the other team.
If the "other team" cannot be determined, use the arrow.
mick

[Camron Rust]

Originally posted by Smitty

Then I think I'm screwed - looks like I'm the only one who would even consider calling a travel in this situation. Personally I think there are too many quick-whistled held-ball calls. Sure, someone could get hurt or pissed off if you let them struggle for a couple seconds, but how many times have you whistled one dead just as one player has wrestled the ball away? I'm sticking with a travel if, in my opinion, the ball hasn't been held long enough to warrant a held-ball call.

First to occur is all that matters. It doesn't matter that the ref has not blown the whistle of finished analyzing the play. If the ref ultimately decides a held has occurred, the travel is then durning a dead ball.

I'm calling the held ball...likely with a delay on the whistle to view the whole play.

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by mick

And the rationale could be that since A1 could not rip the ball away without traveling, then it must have been [ex post facto] a held ball?

Not really, Mick. As I said originally, without seeing the actual play, it sounds to me that if the ball didn't come free by "wrenching" it, then the two players had the ball so tightly that sole possession couldn't be gained without undue force. That's pretty much the definition of a held ball.