The Official Forum - Almost a held ball, or almost a travel?

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- - Almost a held ball, or almost a travel? (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/22588-almost-held-ball-almost-travel.html)

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Originally posted by ChuckElias

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Originally posted by mick

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Originally posted by ChuckElias
BTW, I'm still going with held ball.

And the rationale <U>could be</U> that since A1 could not rip the ball away without traveling, then it must have been [ex post facto] a held ball?

Not really, Mick. As I said originally, without seeing the actual play, it sounds to me that if the ball didn't come free by "wrenching" it, then the two players had the ball so tightly that sole possession couldn't be gained without undue force. That's pretty much the definition of a held ball.

The feet moved at the wrenching. Thus the *held ball* determination is made after the fact that one of the players had the moving feet.

[Note: I saw this play called as a *travel* in a JV game last night, and I thought it was an interesting case. Like I said, the easy call is *Jump* The harder call is the player (jointly] controlling the ball and violating the *limits on foot movements*.]
mick

Quote:

Originally posted by mick

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Originally posted by ChuckElias

Quote:

Originally posted by mick

Quote:

Originally posted by ChuckElias
BTW, I'm still going with held ball.

And the rationale <U>could be</U> that since A1 could not rip the ball away without traveling, then it must have been [ex post facto] a held ball?

Not really, Mick. As I said originally, without seeing the actual play, it sounds to me that if the ball didn't come free by "wrenching" it, then the two players had the ball so tightly that sole possession couldn't be gained without undue force. That's pretty much the definition of a held ball.

The feet moved at the wrenching. Thus the *held ball* determination is made after the fact that one of the players had the moving feet.

[Note: I saw this play called as a *travel* in a JV game last night, and I thought it was an interesting case. Like I said, the easy call is *Jump* The harder call is the player (jointly] controlling the ball and violating the *limits on foot movements*.]
mick

I don't really think that the held ball call is the easy call at all, just the correct one.;)

As has been said, if player A needed to travel to get sole possession, that required undue force, thus a held ball by definition.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: have to agree with most!!

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Originally posted by mick

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Originally posted by Smitty

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Originally posted by mick

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Originally posted by IREFU2
His initial post said they where "firmly" holding the ball. I would get in there with the JUMP ASAP!

Personally, in this situation, I do not call a held ball as soon as possible. Unlike preventing the release of a pass, or release of a shot, seeing a player cleanly taking the ball away from an opponent requires strength, speed and athleticism.

The immediate jump ball, IMO, diminishes the advantage of being better skilled. ... But it certainly is the easy way to make the call.

mick

Now you're just being a tease. :)

So what would the result of the whole play be in your eyes?

I seek consensus, Smitty.
mick

Then I'll throw my con cents into the pot too.

Held ball.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: have to agree with most!!

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Originally posted by Dan_ref

Then I'll throw my con cents into the pot too.

Held ball.

Before "a held ball is judged" we have two players "each firmly holding the ball" - jump ball is the correct call, even the way the sitch is worded.

The only way a player can travel is all by himself. Once another player has co-control of the ball, it's a jump.

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Originally posted by canuckrefguy
The only way a player can travel is all by himself.

Hmmmmm. . .

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Once another player has co-control of the ball, it's a jump.

Hmmmmm. . .

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: have to agree with most!!

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Originally posted by Dan_ref
Then I'll throw my con cents

Groooooooan!

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Originally posted by ChuckElias

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Originally posted by canuckrefguy
The only way a player can travel is all by himself.

Hmmmmm. . .

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Once another player has co-control of the ball, it's a jump.

Hmmmmm. . .

Same *Hmmmmm*. ;)

An entire three page thread completely on-topic, with no name calling, and relevant to almost any basketball referee's experience. What are you guys trying to do, ruin this board?!?

BTW, put me in the held ball column.

on the topic of good defense

is what caused the travel...

how about an offensive player who goes to shoot and gets blocked and that block causes him to come back down with the ball (it never left his hand because dikembe mutombo doesnt allow that kind of stuff in his house). That good defense -- would you call the up and down or the jump ball (which is what it is).

Re: on the topic of good defense

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Originally posted by deecee
is what caused the travel...

how about an offensive player who goes to shoot and gets blocked and that block causes him to come back down with the ball (it never left his hand because dikembe mutombo doesnt allow that kind of stuff in his house). That good defense -- would you call the up and down or the jump ball (which is what it is).

What's an "up and down"?

i should have said travel...