The Test

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by BktBallRef


That sounded just as stupid when you said it as it did when Rut said it.

I will have Part 1 and answers when my rule books arrive. So for me, it makes no difference whether I see it or not. But I'm not going to post it for others to see who may be using it for advancement. If you can't see that, then you're a lot dumber than I originally thought.

One on one is the same as posting it on the Internet? Damn, that's dumb. If I know that I'm giving it to someone who has no other purpose than to use it to practice, that is not the same as poosting on the Internet. That's real dumb to think it's the same.

IF YOU POST IT, PEOPLE WILL USE IT TO CHEAT. Why would you want to be a party to that?

Why is all this name calling necessary? I remember there being a conversation about coaches' ratings and whether it was a good thing. You remember rather clearly that you thought coaches giving ratings was silly. Well in my state the ratings have more of a bearing on state assignments than what we make on a test. As it relates to basketball, an official is not going to just jump levels of playoffs based on what happens on this test. I have not seen a person jump from only working a Regional the year before, to work a Super-Sectional the following year. The test is used one of many requirements to keep your license. I understand you feel strongly about this, but it does not mean every state or jurisdiction is using it the same. There are states that do not even use the NF tests at all. Are those guys cheating if they get the answers to a test their state will never use?

Peace

[assignmentmaker]

I plan to give the Fed test (100 questions) to a group who are candidates for board membership. How much time is commonly (or not) allocated for this?

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by assignmentmaker
I plan to give the Fed test (100 questions) to a group who are candidates for board membership. How much time is commonly (or not) allocated for this?

When we take it we get pretty much how ever long it takes. I don't know if anyone has ever taken more than an hour. You either know the stuff, or you don't. Not a lot of calculating involved!

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by assignmentmaker
I plan to give the Fed test (100 questions) to a group who are candidates for board membership. How much time is commonly (or not) allocated for this?

We get 1 hour for Part 2. I've never taken more than 20 minutes.

[dblref]

Originally posted by assignmentmaker
I plan to give the Fed test (100 questions) to a group who are candidates for board membership. How much time is commonly (or not) allocated for this?

My association allocates 1 hour for the exam. Most people finish in about 30-40 minutes.

[stripes]

Originally posted by BktBallRef

That sounded just as stupid when you said it as it did when Rut said it.

I will have Part 1 and answers when my rule books arrive. So for me, it makes no difference whether I see it or not. But I'm not going to post it for others to see who may be using it for advancement. If you can't see that, then you're a lot dumber than I originally thought.

One on one is the same as posting it on the Internet? Damn, that's dumb. If I know that I'm giving it to someone who has no other purpose than to use it to practice, that is not the same as poosting on the Internet. That's real dumb to think it's the same.

IF YOU POST IT, PEOPLE WILL USE IT TO CHEAT. Why would you want to be a party to that?

I won't post it. I don't get the answers. I have already completed my test (by myself) and have rule references for all of my answers, but I still don't have a problem with someone posting it for the use of others.

You may not like the logic, but giving one answer to someone could be construed as cheating (given your logic, I don't know how you can differentiate it). Maybe it is the volume of answers involved that bothers you, I don't know. I do know that you can deride me or try to insult me and you won't change my opinion. I think you like to try and bully people into agreeing with you by trying to insult them or make them feel like they are not intelligent if they don't share your opinion. I don't share your feelings. If that makes me dumb, I'm dumb.

I know that I use the correct answers in a class I teach for new officials. I give them the correct answers so they can know what they did wrong on their tests without having to wait for the state to send them corrected tests back. IMO, a very legitimate use for the answers, but as I said earlier, I don't get the correct answers so I take them and use them. If others want to cheat, I certainly don't agree with their choice, but it is their choice and they have to live with it.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by stripes
[/B]

I know that I use the correct answers in a class I teach for new officials. I give them the correct answers so they can know what they did wrong on their tests without having to wait for the state to send them corrected tests back.
[/B][/QUOTE]That's fine- after they've written their tests.

Would you give your class all of the answers to that same test weeks before they had to write it? Especially if state certification depended on them passing that particular test?

[JRutledge]

I was recently helping out with a football class for new officials and the current year's NF test was used. The answers were given out before the state gave out the scores. The purpose of the class was to get newer officials and our state signed off on the class and the curriculum. We are all not going to spaze out if the answers are given.

Our state gives out the Part 2 Exam for those officials that are going for promotion. They give them 2 hours to take the test. An hour seems kind of short if you ask me.

Peace

[jritchie]

Originally posted by Dan_ref

You are right, I do not mean to imply W&S is asking for answers.

sure he was asking for the answers, he asked for the test "to check his answers" that is how i took it anyways... you have to be given answers to check yours..i could be wrong though

[FrankHtown]

With all the knowledge and exprience in this forum, why are people stressing, needing the answers. The test is not that difficult, if you have a reasonable knowledge of the rules, and usually, the way I get an incorrect answer is that the question is word-smithed so bad, it is barely intelligible english.

I mean, if you spend any time at all with the rule book, I can't see how you'd ever get lower than an 80%, and if you really study,lower than a 95%.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by FrankHtown
With all the knowledge and exprience in this forum, why are people stressing, needing the answers. The test is not that difficult, if you have a reasonable knowledge of the rules, and usually, the way I get an incorrect answer is that the question is word-smithed so bad, it is barely intelligible english.

I mean, if you spend any time at all with the rule book, I can't see how you'd ever get lower than an 80%, and if you really study,lower than a 95%.

Who is stressing over it. If you have already taken the exam, some would like to know how they did or get some idea how they did. I know that we will not get the answers until right before the season starts. I would like to know if I answer the questions right before that time. I do not think anyone is stressing over this issue, they just want to see if they understand what the NF is asking. I learn more from the wrong answers or answers that are not scored than the answers I get right. That is why these tests do not really prove anything. It has been long established that the NF writes poorly worded questions or uses semantics when asking many of these questions. The Part 2 Football exam my state threw out 8 or 9 questions for being either ambiguous or not completely correct.

Peace

[stripes]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

I know that I use the correct answers in a class I teach for new officials. I give them the correct answers so they can know what they did wrong on their tests without having to wait for the state to send them corrected tests back.
[/B]

That's fine- after they've written their tests.

Would you give your class all of the answers to that same test weeks before they had to write it? Especially if state certification depended on them passing that particular test? [/B][/QUOTE]

That is when I use it, but I need the answers before then. My state certification doesn't work that way. If yours does DON'T LOOK AT THE ANSWERS. This is not that difficult of an issue. My original post in all of this was in that vein. I don't see the need to make it a big deal. If I don't get the answers early, fine. I don't pass it along to the class. If I do, great because it is a convinence for me.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by stripes

That's fine- after they've written their tests.

Would you give your class all of the answers to that same test weeks before they had to write it? Especially if state certification depended on them passing that particular test? [/B]

That is when I use it, but I need the answers before then. My state certification doesn't work that way. If yours does DON'T LOOK AT THE ANSWERS. This is not that difficult of an issue. My original post in all of this was in that vein. I don't see the need to make it a big deal. If I don't get the answers early, fine. I don't pass it along to the class. If I do, great because it is a convinence for me. [/B][/QUOTE]So....making sure I'm deciphering your answer right.....you would give your training class all of the answers to your state exam before they had to write it. Correct?

And you don't see anything wrong with supplying test answers to people in other states that do have closed exams and whose state certification also depends on the mark of that test? Correct also?

[Edited by Jurassic Referee on Oct 7th, 2005 at 03:53 PM]

[ref18]

I belong to two associations, as far as I know, neither one writes the NFHS test, so would it be too much to ask that someone who has the test e-mail it to me so I can use it to study for the test which I am required to write, I don't want the answers, just the test.

If you can help, drop me a line

[stripes]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

That is when I use it, but I need the answers before then. My state certification doesn't work that way. If yours does DON'T LOOK AT THE ANSWERS. This is not that difficult of an issue. My original post in all of this was in that vein. I don't see the need to make it a big deal. If I don't get the answers early, fine. I don't pass it along to the class. If I do, great because it is a convinence for me. [/B]

So....making sure I'm deciphering your answer right.....you would give your training class all of the answers to your state exam before they had to write it. Correct?

And you don't see anything wrong with supplying test answers to people in other states that do have closed exams and whose state certification also depends on the mark of that test? Correct also?

[Edited by Jurassic Referee on Oct 7th, 2005 at 03:53 PM] [/B][/QUOTE]

I never said (or wrote) any of your assertations. If you read my posts, you will notice that I said the following: I said I don't have a problem with people sharing information. I also don't see a difference in sharing one answer or 100. I also wrote that if you need this test score for certification, ranking, etc., in your own area, don't look at the answers. I believe that we can be responsible s and govern ourselves regarding information we access.

Regarding my use of the test answers, I give the informationto the class after their tests are in. I turn in my test (which I stated I have already completed) at the same time that the class does. So, if I am going to share the information, I need to acquire the answers before I turn in my test. I never use the answers to boost my score. As I said before, my test is done.

As far as I am concerned, this is not about my situation, it is about helping each other. If you want the answers to help in your rule study and I have the answers, I would provide the answers to you. What you do with them is your deal. I am not the referee police (unlike several others on the board), but I do try to give back to my local group and help other officials progress in the careers. I believe my group benefits and appreciates what I do, if you don't, fine, ignore me.

Unfortuneately, I have helped this thread decend into what I decried in my original post...DRAMA. For those of you who agree with me about the drama, my apologies.

One final time from me, Share the answers appropriately, whether it is one answer or 100. If your area uses the part I test for your rankings, etc...DON'T CHEAT!