You agree it's bad judgement yet you still focus on the words in 4.15.4 sit A.

If you were comfortable with the words then you would have no problem with the occasional bounce pass being whistled as an illegal dribble.

So, to answer your question: I don't care what 4.15.4 sit A says, it does not reflect the intent of the rules.

If A1 bats the ball to the ground after he's used his dribble I do not have an illegal dribble until he "completes" the dribble by touching it again. That is because I must eliminate the possibility that A1 passed the ball, which is perfectly legal.

Quote:

Originally posted by Dan_ref You agree it's bad judgement yet you still focus on the words in 4.15.4 sit A. If you were comfortable with the words then you would have no problem with the occasional bounce pass being whistled as an illegal dribble. So, to answer your question: I don't care what 4.15.4 sit A says, it does not reflect the intent of the rules. If A1 bats the ball to the ground after he's used his dribble I do not have an illegal dribble until he "completes" the dribble by touching it again. That is because I must eliminate the possibility that A1 passed the ball, which is perfectly legal.

I think it's pretty obvious (using judgment) in most cases of whether a player is trying to pass or dribble. I can't remember a case where I couldn't tell which one the player was attempting.

The intent of the double dribble rule is to prevent a player from dribbling again after completing a dribble. Since the rules specifically state that a dribble starts when a player pushes the ball to the floor, it seems logical that the violation occurs when the referee judges that a second dribble was started. I'm still waiting for someone to show a rule or case that says otherwise.

Z

Then why is it bad judgement to whistle a bounce pass as an illegal dribble? Using your reasoning bounce passes would be illegal if a player ended his dribble.

Anyway, I'm not all that concerned if you believe me or not, or if someone provides words from the book to convince you. Of course I already gave you a rule which gives 3 ways to start a pass, 1 of which is exactly the same as the start of a dribble. If you can't accept that then that's ok with me.

Come on now, Dan...do you really think it's that hard to tell the difference between the start of a dribble and a bounce pass to a teammate? The only time I can see holding the whistle until he/she touches it again is the situation where the player might throw it way out ahead of them and then run and get it themselves...otherwise, a new dribble and a bounce pass just aren't that similiar looking...

After ending his dribble A1 bats the ball to the floor but does not touch it. A2, standing nearby, catches the ball after a few bounces.

Double dribble?

You're really trying to make this more difficult than it is. If you felt that the bat was the start of a dribble, you whistle the violation when the ball hits the floor. If you felt it was a pass, you have nothing. Pretty basic stuff.

Z

As I already said I do NOT whistle this when the ball hits the floor.

As I already said feel free to do so at your games.

Technically, the violation occurs on the release of the new dribble and is based solely on whether the release was intended to be a dribble or not. Practially, we often wait for the next touch as confirmation that it was indeed a dribble.