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Quote:

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
[Btw, hopefully everyone already knows that a player throwing the ball in can't be called for traveling. [/B]

Are you sure? One time I saw an official blow a whistle during a throw-in, then he used the traveling signal. (tic)

Quote:

Originally posted by Hartsy

Quote:

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
[Btw, hopefully everyone already knows that a player throwing the ball in can't be called for traveling.

Are you sure? One time I saw an official blow a whistle during a throw-in, then he used the traveling signal. (tic) [/B]

I saw the exact same thing in an NCAA game that I was watching last year. There was a "spot" violation on a designated spot throw-in and the official used the traveling signal instead when he called it. Right call--wrong signal.

Quote:

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

Quote:

Originally posted by Hartsy

Quote:

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
[Btw, hopefully everyone already knows that a player throwing the ball in can't be called for traveling.

Are you sure? One time I saw an official blow a whistle during a throw-in, then he used the traveling signal. (tic)

I saw the exact same thing in an NCAA game that I was watching last year. There was a "spot" violation on a designated spot throw-in and the official used the traveling signal instead when he called it. Right call--wrong signal. [/B]

I've seen several officials in our area use the travel signal as well, and I think that helps perpetuate the myth that you can travel during a throw-in. Isn't the proper signal just the open-palm? What else do other people do to communicate what actually happened? Does this fall in the same category as the free-throw rim violation, where some people tend to use the "swirlie" (or is it "swirly"?), instead of just the open palm?

Quote:

Originally posted by M&M Guy
[/B]

I've seen several officials in our area use the travel signal as well, and I think that helps perpetuate the myth that you can travel during a throw-in. Isn't the proper signal just the open-palm? What else do other people do to communicate what actually happened? [/B][/QUOTE]Signal #2-open palm- "stop clock"........actually the open palm is to show that the clock remains stopped........followed by signal #25- "free throw,designated spot, or other violation".

[Edited by Jurassic Referee on Sep 13th, 2005 at 06:25 PM]

Striking the ball with Fist

Quote:

Originally posted by M&M Guy

Quote:

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

Quote:

Originally posted by M&M Guy

Quote:

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

Btw, hopefully everyone already knows that a player throwing the ball in can't be called for traveling.

Isn't that one of the Basketball Rules Fundamentals? I believe it says the traveling and dribble rules do not apply during throw-ins, free throws, and jump balls. I sure hope everyone reads that section.

So, I guess using that basis, then other rules do apply during throw-ins, such as not being able to intentionally strike the ball with the leg or fist.

Yup, the Basketball Rules Fundamentals certainly does say that travelling and dribbling violations do not apply during throw-ins, but those Fundamentals also don't mention kicking or punching the ball as being exempt also. And...R9-4 sez that a player cannot travel with the ball, kick it or strike it with a fist. And.....R9-2 lists throw-in violations, but also specifically does not list traveling, kicking the ball, punching the ball or double-dribbles as being throw-in violations.

So.....if M&M sez to JR that kicking or punching the ball by the thrower is a violation, and JR asks for a rules citation to back that statement up, what does M&M say?

And.... if JR sez to M&M that kicking or punching the ball by the thrower isn't a violation, and M&M asks JR for a rules citation to back his statement up, what does JR now say?

Fun, eh? :D

Where's NevadaRef when you need him?

Ow...my head hurts. I'm sure Nevadaref will show up at some point with his warped, leagalistic approach.

So, if M&M sez it's a violation, all he'd have to do is point to 9-4, and everyone will nod their heads in agreement. Right? Hear that? I even hear people nodding their heads right now (it's that rattling sound...unless it's just coming from my head...). Then he would point to the Rules Fundamental that says only traveling and dribble rules don't apply to throw-ins. So, by simplistic logic, the rest still apply. Then, to dramatically prove his point, with the symphony going to cresendo in the background, he would then make the statement, "So, if it doesn't specifically prohibit kicking the ball during the throw-in, then surely it doesn't prohibit the player from giving the ref the finger as well." The crowd goes, "Ooooohh!" M&M then sits back down, with a smile on face, knowing he once again wins the case.

Well, at least that's how it works in my little head. Remember, later on in the same dream he's at the ticket office purchasing Cub World Series tickets.

I only responded to JR's posting of this earlier in the thread with a smiley because I thought that he was poking a little fun at me due to this prior thread: http://www.officialforum.com/thread/20685

I didn't think that he was asking a serious question!
How I feel about this play is well stated there.

Re: Striking the ball with Fist

Quote:

Originally posted by Nevadaref

Quote:

Originally posted by M&M Guy

Quote:

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

Quote:

Originally posted by M&M Guy

Quote:

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

Btw, hopefully everyone already knows that a player throwing the ball in can't be called for traveling.

Isn't that one of the Basketball Rules Fundamentals? I believe it says the traveling and dribble rules do not apply during throw-ins, free throws, and jump balls. I sure hope everyone reads that section.

So, I guess using that basis, then other rules do apply during throw-ins, such as not being able to intentionally strike the ball with the leg or fist.

Yup, the Basketball Rules Fundamentals certainly does say that travelling and dribbling violations do not apply during throw-ins, but those Fundamentals also don't mention kicking or punching the ball as being exempt also. And...R9-4 sez that a player cannot travel with the ball, kick it or strike it with a fist. And.....R9-2 lists throw-in violations, but also specifically does not list traveling, kicking the ball, punching the ball or double-dribbles as being throw-in violations.

So.....if M&M sez to JR that kicking or punching the ball by the thrower is a violation, and JR asks for a rules citation to back that statement up, what does M&M say?

And.... if JR sez to M&M that kicking or punching the ball by the thrower isn't a violation, and M&M asks JR for a rules citation to back his statement up, what does JR now say?

Fun, eh? :D

Where's NevadaRef when you need him?

Ow...my head hurts. I'm sure Nevadaref will show up at some point with his warped, leagalistic approach.

So, if M&M sez it's a violation, all he'd have to do is point to 9-4, and everyone will nod their heads in agreement. Right? Hear that? I even hear people nodding their heads right now (it's that rattling sound...unless it's just coming from my head...). Then he would point to the Rules Fundamental that says only traveling and dribble rules don't apply to throw-ins. So, by simplistic logic, the rest still apply. Then, to dramatically prove his point, with the symphony going to cresendo in the background, he would then make the statement, "So, if it doesn't specifically prohibit kicking the ball during the throw-in, then surely it doesn't prohibit the player from giving the ref the finger as well." The crowd goes, "Ooooohh!" M&M then sits back down, with a smile on face, knowing he once again wins the case.

Well, at least that's how it works in my little head. Remember, later on in the same dream he's at the ticket office purchasing Cub World Series tickets.

I only responded to JR's posting of this earlier in the thread with a smiley because I thought that he was poking a little fun at me due to this prior thread: http://www.officialforum.com/thread/20685

I didn't think that he was asking a serious question!
How I feel about this play is well stated there.

Whoa, there Tiny Tim..........

If I read that other thread right, you're saying that a kicked ball is a violation on a throw-in and you're citing R9-4 to back up your statement. Right? Now.....R9-4 also says that it's a violation to travel with the ball....which we know isn't applicable on a throw-in. So.....are you still saying that R9-4 is the definitive citation as to what is illegal on a throw-in?

Would I poke a little fun at you? Or M&M? Perish the thought!

Re: Re: Striking the ball with Fist

Quote:

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Would I poke a little fun at you? Or M&M? Perish the thought!

(sniff...sniff)

I'm disappointed that you would intentionally poke fun at me. My feelings are hurt. :(

Ok, I'm over it. After all, I've had 40+ years of being a Cub fan to toughen me up! :p

Anyway, back to the popcorn-tossing. I thought Rule 9 was about violations and penalties; in other words, what is considered a violation and then how do you penalize it. So, in 9-4, even though it mentions traveling, kicking the ball, striking it with the fist, and causing the ball to go thru the basket from below, I didn't think these violations were part of a specific "group", where if one is allowed, then they all are. The rule just mentions this list of violations, with the penalty being the ball becomes dead and the spot throw-in is awarded to the other team nearest the violation. So, when the Rules Fundementals say you the dribble (4-15) or traveling (4-43) rules don't apply, it doesn't say 9-4 as a whole doesn't apply. So, if you say 9-4 doesn't apply, then you would allow the player to throw the ball direct from OOB thru the basket from below?

(There's that orchestra and cresendo again...)

Re: Re: Re: Striking the ball with Fist

Quote:

Originally posted by Dan_ref

Quote:

Originally posted by Snaqwells

Quote:

Originally posted by Stripes33
Has anyone ever called a violation for striking the ball with a fist. Called it two seasons ago on a player who blatantly punched a ball trying to stop it from going OB on the sideline. Coach thought it was a joke. Showed him the rulebook after the game and he said he had never heard of it in his 20 years of coaching.

AAU game last spring. Had a girl swing with the fist and miss the ball, ended up hitting the other girl on the collar bone. Called a foul and told her not to use her fist, or it would be an intentional. Coach is chirping about calling a cheap foul until I informed him of the fist. Didn't hear a word from him the rest of the game.

So you whistle A1 for winding up & punching B1 on the collar bone & Coach A complains about a cheap foul??

Tough buncha kids you got there.

She didn't really wind up so much, from his angle it didn't look like a lot more than a standard swipe at the ball. It was early, though, and he'd been barking a bit at me and my rookie partner. My only regret is that I chewed his as$ in front of the entire gym rather than stop the clock (running clock games) and call a coach's conference. But it worked, so I don't regret it too much. :)