The Official Forum - Rules Myths

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Originally posted by assignmentmaker

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Originally posted by Mark Dexter

Quote:

Originally posted by assignmentmaker

You're being purposefully obtuse, in my view. I'm not going to explain the subtlties of physics, or orders of operation. It's a suggestion as to how to deeper understand what the simple (minded) rules don't get at.

IAAPT (I am a physics teacher) and, while it is possible for an object to be accelerating while at rest, that doesn't matter here. If the ball comes to rest in my hand (i.e., isn't moving) my intended acceleration of the ball has is of no consequence - dead ball, carrying call before the ball can get moving again.

"IAAPT (I am a physics teacher)". Good! I am a physics consumer.

Reality suggests the ball comes to rest against the hand in a conventional dribble (think Cousy) - the hand stays within 90 degrees of palm facing down and no vector of support has been exerted. Beyond that, some control is being exerted on the ball. If, during the time such contact exists, 2 steps take place, you have your basic spin move that, to lots of players, coaches, officials, and fans looks like a travel. Their instinctive complaint is that control of the ball is being exerted in a way other than accelerating the ball towards the floor.

On the other hand, as it were, it's possible for a hand to be placed under the ball and the ball to be redirected in the palm while decelerating it in such a way that it never comes fully to rest relative to the palm, though sufficient control has been exerted to impress observers that palming has taken place.

This wasn't an issue when everyone kept their hand on top of the ball (think Maravich - when he put his hand on the side of the ball, he batted it). The exceptions were few and easy to identify; they were exceptions. The language of the rule is inadequate to characterize the action in the modern game, and pointing to the spot, and calling it beautyfool . . . well that's just so Jurassic.

Lah me, more undecipherable gobbledegook with nary a rules citation in sight. Again, where may I find in any rule book anything that even remotely resembles the nonsense that you have been spouting?

Btw, remember your previous statement? To wit- "In the sense I am proposing here, 'palming' can be a violation even before it results in a travel or double dribble"? You were asked several times to explain that little gem. We're still waiting. Again, WHAT violation are you talking about. Please just simply cite the violation and the rules citation backing it. There's no need for more accompanying nonsensical verbiage- just tell us whatinthehell violation you're talking about.

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Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

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Originally posted by assignmentmaker

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Originally posted by Mark Dexter

Quote:

Originally posted by assignmentmaker

You're being purposefully obtuse, in my view. I'm not going to explain the subtlties of physics, or orders of operation. It's a suggestion as to how to deeper understand what the simple (minded) rules don't get at.

IAAPT (I am a physics teacher) and, while it is possible for an object to be accelerating while at rest, that doesn't matter here. If the ball comes to rest in my hand (i.e., isn't moving) my intended acceleration of the ball has is of no consequence - dead ball, carrying call before the ball can get moving again.

"IAAPT (I am a physics teacher)". Good! I am a physics consumer.

Reality suggests the ball comes to rest against the hand in a conventional dribble (think Cousy) - the hand stays within 90 degrees of palm facing down and no vector of support has been exerted. Beyond that, some control is being exerted on the ball. If, during the time such contact exists, 2 steps take place, you have your basic spin move that, to lots of players, coaches, officials, and fans looks like a travel. Their instinctive complaint is that control of the ball is being exerted in a way other than accelerating the ball towards the floor.

On the other hand, as it were, it's possible for a hand to be placed under the ball and the ball to be redirected in the palm while decelerating it in such a way that it never comes fully to rest relative to the palm, though sufficient control has been exerted to impress observers that palming has taken place.

This wasn't an issue when everyone kept their hand on top of the ball (think Maravich - when he put his hand on the side of the ball, he batted it). The exceptions were few and easy to identify; they were exceptions. The language of the rule is inadequate to characterize the action in the modern game, and pointing to the spot, and calling it beautyfool . . . well that's just so Jurassic.

Lah me, more undecipherable gobbledegook with nary a rules citation in sight. Again, where may I find in any rule book anything that even remotely resembles the nonsense that you have been spouting?

Btw, remember your previous statement? To wit- "In the sense I am proposing here, 'palming' can be a violation even before it results in a travel or double dribble"? You were asked several times to explain that little gem. We're still waiting. Again, WHAT violation are you talking about. Please just simply cite the violation and the rules citation backing it. There's no need for more accompanying nonsensical verbiage- just tell us whatinthehell violation you're talking about.

Precisely! A carry is ALWAYS a double dribble or a travel. A few years ago, they actually removed the carry signal for this very reason. They put it back after discovering it was more clear to communicate the violation as a carry.

Revised Misunderstood Rules

There have been no new posts on my "Most Misunderstood Basketball Rules" on the "Rules Myths" thread for the past three days. A few basketball forum members have commented on some of the rules listed, not realizing that they had already been changed thanks to the comments of some other forum members. To clear up what has been changed and what has not been changed, I am posting the revised list under a new thread entitled "Most Misunderstood Basketball Rules". I am still looking for constructive feedback on this list, including rule or interpretation errors, additions, deletions, grammar, spelling, etc. Please keep in mind that this list will not be used to train officials, rather, it will be used to educate coaches, players, and fans. Thanks to all those basketball forum members who have helped me so far. Please keep those comments coming and please make those comments on the new "Most Misunderstood Basketball Rules" thread.