Backcourt violation?

[BLydic]

Originally posted by Camron Rust

Answer these questions...
1. Team control?
2. Ball (not player)has FC status?
3. Team A last to touch the ball before the ball returns to the backcourt.
4. Team A first to touch after ball returns to the backcourt.

If any are no...no violation.

#1. Yes...clearly since A1 was dribbling up to this point.
#2. Yes. Since the 3-point exception only applies during dribbler, the fumble causes the ball to be in the FC when it bounces.
#3. Yes. Prior to the fumble.
#4. Yes. After the fumble.

I'm in total agreement with points #1 & #2, but please help me to understand how the ball returns to the backcourt, I don't read that in the post.

I liken this situation to A1 strattling the line, passing to A2 (who is in the frontcourt; ball is now in the frontcourt) and then receiving a return pass while still straddling the line. That would, IMO, constitute an obvious violation.

But I appreciate your post, I did learn that the ball can gain FC status, during a fumble, while the player my still be in the BC.

[Lotto]

Originally posted by BLydic

I'm in total agreement with points #1 & #2, but please help me to understand how the ball returns to the backcourt, I don't read that in the post.

The player, say A1, is straddling the line and has the ball, then fumbles. The ball hits the frontcourt. The ball is now in the frontcourt. The ball attains backcourt status when A1, still straddling the line, recovers the fumble. A1 is in the backcourt, A1 touches the ball, hence the ball is in the backcourt as well.

A1 was the last to touch before the ball returned to the backcourt, and A1 was the first to touch when the ball returned to the backcourt.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by lukealex

Here I see a player end the dribble while straddling the line. Nothing wrong with that. Fumbles the ball in the FC, picks it up, nothing wrong with that either. Does the player move either foot while straddling the line? If not, why is that a backcourt violation?

Where is the player? In the BC

Where is the balkl when he drops it? In the FC.

Where is the player and subsequently the ball when he recovers it? In the BC.

Violation.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by BLydic
I'm in total agreement with points #1 & #2, but please help me to understand how the ball returns to the backcourt, I don't read that in the post.

I liken this situation to A1 strattling the line, passing to A2 (who is in the frontcourt; ball is now in the frontcourt) and then receiving a return pass while still straddling the line. That would, IMO, constitute an obvious violation.

It's the same play.

When the ball is passed to the teammate, it attains FC status.

When the ball is fumbled to the floor, it attains FC status.

In both cases, when the player who is straddling the division line again, it's a violation.

[BLydic]

Originally posted by Lotto
The player, say A1, is straddling the line and has the ball, then fumbles. The ball hits the frontcourt. The ball is now in the frontcourt. The ball attains backcourt status when A1, still straddling the line, recovers the fumble. A1 is in the backcourt, A1 touches the ball, hence the ball is in the backcourt as well.

A1 was the last to touch before the ball returned to the backcourt, and A1 was the first to touch when the ball returned to the backcourt.

I can be very dense sometimes .. Sorry Camron, thanks Lotto

[Camron Rust]

Originally posted by BLydic

I can be very dense sometimes .. Sorry Camron, thanks Lotto

No need to be sorry! This is a convoluted rule.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally posted by Camron Rust
No need to be sorry! This is a convoluted rule.

Camron - no it's not. It's as clear as a Metro land use regulation!

(that's an inside joke here in Portland)

[Nevadaref]

Originally posted by assignmentmaker
I've been watching for that for years and haven't bagged me one yet.

I haven't had the opportunity to make that call yet either, but I did get to call a rather bizarre one.

A girl threw the ball from the BC into the FC where it hit my partner, who was running down the court with his back turned , in the butt and rebounded directly into the BC, where that same girl recovered it.

That coach was in total disbelief!

[assignmentmaker]

Originally posted by Nevadaref

I haven't had the opportunity to make that call yet either, but I did get to call a rather bizarre one.

A girl threw the ball from the BC into the FC where it hit my partner, who was running down the court with his back turned , in the butt and rebounded directly into the BC, where that same girl recovered it.

That coach was in total disbelief!

My most recent favorite . . . I am the lead watching thrower A1 and defender B1 carefully. 4 . . . 4.5 . . . release . . . by the time I catch sight of the ball it is in the air, being hauled in by A2, who is towards the sideline, a little ways towards midcourt beyond the plane of the backboard. Coach of Team B goes nuts claiming the ball hit the back of the backboard. Before T-ing him I actually attempted to diagram the angle of incidence and the angle of reflection for him . . . but no, it was not to be . . .

[BiG_UNiT_32]

*i think the call should be without a doubt a double dribble because she dropped it then picked it back up after she had already picked up her dribble. i dont know if i would call a over and back because i wouldnt be sure.*

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by BiG_UNiT_32
*i think the call should be without a doubt a double dribble because she dropped it then picked it back up after she had already picked up her dribble.

Not necessarily. Dropping the ball is not always a dribble. It could be a fumble, which can be legally picked up again. Judgement call.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by BiG_UNiT_32
*i think the call should be without a doubt a double dribble because she dropped it then picked it back up after she had already picked up her dribble. i dont know if i would call a over and back because i wouldnt be sure.*

Simply losing control of the ball and fumbling it to the floor is NOT a dribble. A fumble is the accidental loss of player control when the ball unintentionally drops or slips from a player's grasp. A fumble is not a drible and a double dribble should not be called.