Four scariest words from a player

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by WeekendRef
Chuck ,
You are comparing telling off color jokes to your buddies in private to saying "you can run the baseline but I will call a violation" ??

No. Read it again carefully. Go ahead. I'll wait. . . Hmmmmmm, hmmmmmmm, hmmmmmmmm.

Ok, so now that you've re-read it, you see that I was not comparing the jokes to your particular comment. I was comparing telling jokes with my buddies to compliling lists of smart*** comments in other threads on this forum. This forum is kind of like the locker room after a game. We can tell the "coach jokes" and compile our favorite smart*** comments, while we're here. But when we go out on the floor, those comments generally bite us in the butt; just as your comment bit you on the butt.

I understand what you are saying which is basically we should keep our favorite comebacks to ourselves ( and to this board)

You are correct.

but I think you are wrong in this instance .

Well, one of us is. (My vote is that it's you )

I did not say "That is a stupid freaking question and if you are actually a referee then you must be sleeping with the assignor to get any games at all because you obviously have no freaking idea what you are talking about" .
I would consider that a smart a$$ answer

I would consider that to be an invitation to get your butt kicked. That's not a smart** answer, that's an outright insult. A smart*** comment is generally trying to be funny at some level; but the humor is missed or not appreciated in a game situation.

Also keep in mind this was a Men's league game....

This is irrelevant to my comments.

[WeekendRef]

Go back and read the initial post carefully .I will wait hmmmmm....hmmmmmm.....hmmmmm
OK now that you have re-read it please tell me where it says my comment bit me in the butt ? Did you find that line yet ? I don't think you will as my comments had absolutely no bearing on my relationship with this player nor did it make the situation worse .

You used a poor analogy and I pointed that out in so many words . I understood what you were trying to say and I stated that right after I questioned your "comparison" . If you weren't so quick to try and make smarta$$ comebacks you would have realized that and we would not be having this discussion .
I have been on here for a while even though I don't post much I have read quite a few of your posts and I think you have a lot to offer in terms of advice and rules clarification but I think you are wrong in this situation as what I said was in line with what he was asking . Taking into cosideration he is a ref and it was a mens league game....these factors can not be ignored . I would have most likely T'd him if this was a High School kid saying this to me . I conduct myself differently when doing High School as opposed to Mens league games...so I do not think it is irrelavant .

[tomegun]

Originally posted by Dan_ref

btw I love that joke you told me about the Jew, the parrot and the Methodist minister who walk into a whorehouse....

Dan and Jurassic, I don't think Chuck asked for examples.

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by WeekendRef
OK now that you have re-read it please tell me where it says my comment bit me in the butt ?

Sure. Right here: "He then tells me that I am wrong and that he can run the baseline and I really don't know the rules". You then went on to say that the only reason you didn't T him is that you were "shocked". That is called biting you in the butt. Player/coach makes a comment, ref makes a smart*** comment, player/coach responds with something that merits a T. That is called biting you in the butt. And that's what happened in your sitch.

Now, I totally understand that you originally thought that the player was kidding around. That doesn't justify your comment. If you give a straight answer the first time ("Afraid not. Spot throw-in here."), then either (a) you don't get the over-the-top reply or (b) you get the reply but with the knowledge that you didn't bring it on yourself.

my comments had absolutely no bearing on my relationship with this player nor did it make the situation worse .

One more thing we disagree on, I guess.

You used a poor analogy and I pointed that out in so many words.

Again, I think the analogy was pretty good. But I can see that you're very eager not to be wrong, so I won't try to explain it again.

I would have most likely T'd him if this was a High School kid saying this to me .

And there it is. Your comment elicited a response that was T-worthy. So what have we learned? Keep those comments on the forum and out of your game. (Which was the point of my analogy.)

[refnrev]

When a coach says, "I'm a ref, too" I pray using the following four words in my head, "Lord give me strength!" I usually need it!

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by tomegun

Dan and Jurassic, I don't think Chuck asked for examples.

Tom, I don't think your post has anything to do with Chuck.

[deecee]

If after a made basket the defending team fouls the team trying to throw in during the inbounds play and the throw in occurs at the baseline -- however if the offensive team has clear possesion and then the foul occurs its a regular spot throw-in -- it sounded like the fould happend during the throw in process so therefore "the ref" was right. They retain this right even if they call a timeout after the foul has been called.

Its essentially double Jeopardy if they lose the ability to run baseline because of a foul on the defensive team.

The only exception to the rule is if during the throwin an offensive player removes his Jersey while sitting on the bench AND your partner has a simultaneous double foul on the other end --- [end wiseass]

[cmathews]

Deecee I disagree, team A inbounds the ball and is immediately fouled. I read that as the player on team A caught the ball and was fouled soon thereafter...meaning the throw in is over, and we have a spot throw in...IMHO

[deecee]

once clear possesion has been made by the offensive player catching the ball then its a spot throw in --

what would you call during a throw in Defender B1 and A1 go for the ball -- as B1 reaches for the ball which A1 just grabbed B1 fouls A1 with a hold -- almost simultaneous to catching the ball but probably a split second after the catch was made -- both feet were on the ground so noone is even airborne. Cleary the offensive player -- by a hair has possesion in bounds -- do you:

a) go spot throw in on the baseline
b) give the offensive team the baseline

[tomegun]

Originally posted by Dan_ref

Tom, I don't think your post has anything to do with Chuck.

You're absolutely right. My post has to do with the quick trigger on those jokes that are better left unsaid (the reply to the joke too).

[cmathews]

Originally posted by deecee
-- it sounded like the fould happend during the throw in process so therefore "the ref" was right. They retain this right even if they call a timeout after the foul has been called.

Deecee,
This is what I based my original response on...and in your second example, we have a spot throw in. If it isn't clearly before the throw in ends, then it is after the throw in ends..

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by tomegun

Tom, I don't think your post has anything to do with Chuck.

You're absolutely right. My post has to do with the quick trigger on those jokes that are better left unsaid (the reply to the joke too). [/B][/QUOTE]

Well Tom, I can't speak for JR's reply but I suggest you contact the moderators & request they delete all the stuff you want left unsaid. I'm a big boy, it won't bother me at all if you do.

[deecee]

we dont have a spot throw in -- if i had my rulebook id cite the rule -- i think is 4.something article 9 or 8.

until the offense has established control of the ball inbounds any foul or (violation by the defense) where the resulting throw in would be the same baseline -- the offense retains the right to run the baseline.

Unless i am reading the rule wrong.

[WeekendRef]

Deecee - I believe once the ball is touched inbounds by any player then the right to run the endline is over . I don't believe there is anything that says control....
The only way to retain the running of the endline is to have a violation (Kicked ball) or if the defense fouls before the ball is touched .


If I am wrong about the control (And as soon as I leave work I will check it out) then I just learned something and will consider this a good day

[Edited by WeekendRef on Aug 4th, 2005 at 04:51 PM]

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally posted by WeekendRef
Deecee - I believe once the ball is touched inbounds by any player then the right to run the endline is over . I don't believe there is anything that says control....
The only way to retain the running of the endline is to have a violation (Kicked ball) or if the defense fouls before the ball is touched .


If I am wrong about the control (And as soon as I leave work I will check it out) then I just learned something and will consider this a good day

[Edited by WeekendRef on Aug 4th, 2005 at 04:51 PM]

Would it be more proper to say that if the throw-in ends because of a foul or violation, and the resulting throw-in will be on the endline, that the right to run is retained?

Thus if a kick ends the throw-in, the right is retained. If a foul ends the throw-in, the right is retained. If the throw-in ends via a touch, then a foul or violation occurs, the right is lost.