The Larry Brown quote

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by mick

Ouch!
Been hit by a stone thrown from the Research Triangle.
That's gonna leave a mark.
mick

Not hurling at you, mick.
Prolly should have typed administrators, instead of moderators, since Brad takes care of those types of issues.
Either way, that sumbich needs to go.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by BktBallRef

Not hurling at you, mick.
Prolly should have typed administrators, instead of moderators, since Brad takes care of those types of issues.
Either way, that sumbich needs to go.

Can't we finish pulling his wings off first?

Just another fanboy, single-digit poster. Wander in the door, poke the animals through the bars, and then wander out again. Never to be heard from again usually.

[BktBallRef]

I guess I'm just gettin' old.
I tire so easily of the fanboys these days.

[mick]

Originally posted by BktBallRef
I guess I'm just gettin' old.
I tire so easily of the fanboys these days.

"...always thought he was so cold -- but really he's quite emotional...." - Lee Marvin

[MN BB Ref]

I've been a very frequent visitor and a not so frequent poster here for the past three years. In that time I've gleaned many tips and tricks that I've added to my officiating toolkit and I know that I'm a better official for having been here and having had the opportunity to share in the experiences that you've all had. For that I am very grateful.

However this isn't one of those moments where I feel proud to be part of this group. In re-reading this thread a few times, I feel that LoudBottom came in here asking a very legitimate question in a very respectful way. Instead of responding in kind, many of our members have resorted to insults and been generally mean. I realize that you feel that you should be protected here because this is "The Official Forum". However your negative responses did nothing to improve the image of officials with the general public. Instead we come off as being thin-skinned and beyond reproach. Thats an image I'd rather not have associated with me or my profession.

In response to LoudBottom, I understand what you are asking and I can understand why you may feel that way. I uphold the belief that most (99.999%) of officials are completely impartial and would never want to be part of any "fix" in a game. I think in the case of the officials that you mentioned, they probably call a game that is counter-productive to the type of game that Detroit tries to play. Officials sometimes do have their eyes open for certain things and will be more apt to call it than another official. The other officials on here are welcome to disagree with me, but I've worked with way too many officials to dispute this with me. Because of this, their officiating may hinder the play of certain teams even though the officials are 100% ethical in their duties and administration. Perhaps this is the case with Larry Brown's team.

As for an official deliberately calling things against Detroit in order to influence the game's outcome, it is possible, but like so many of you have stated previously, it is highly unlikely this is the case because it would be career suicide. With all the work and luck that it takes to make it to the NBA, I would never risk throwing this away by being partisan...EVER. Have I been tempted to whack a coach sooner than usual because he rubs me wrong, or a player because of their attitude...sure. Have I done it? I don't think so.

Hopefully in the future when we get a "fan" in our midst that questions the possibility of impropriety we are able to take a little bit of a step back and answer them with the same dignity we show on the court. If they do become unruly and rude, lets let the moderator and or administrator take care of them instead of dishing out our own form of vigilante justice.

Just my two cents worth...for what its worth. Thanks for listening/reading.

[LoudBottom]

Thanks MN...

That's kinda the vibe and discourse that I was hoping for.

LB

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by LoudBottom
Thanks MN...

That's kinda the vibe and discourse that I was hoping for.

LB

Please be aware that I disagree completely with MN. He speaks for himself only. Others may agree or disagree. Iow, I don't tell MN how to post, and I sureashell don't think that MN has any right to tell me how to post. The bottom line is the only ones here who can tell anyone how or how not to respond to goobers like you are the site administrators and the moderators.

If you wanna come here and question the integrity of officials, any officials, then you WILL receive exactly what you deserve. This site isn't for whining fanboys fantasizing about conspiracy theories. We will acknowledge that all officials are human and will miss a call. We will NEVER acknowledge that officials will deliberately screw any particular team.


Iow, don't play with the bulls and then complain if you get the horn.

[drothamel]

Regardless of the nature of the discourse, although civility is preferred, I still have major problems with the premises of the argument that Brown makes:

1) There are three officials on every game. Crawford isn't doing the game by himself, he part of a CREW. It would be impossible for him and him alone to determine the outcome of a game. If you want to prove that the officials are directly affecting the outcome of the game, you would need statistics on all of the permutations of crew possibilities.

2) No game comes down to one call or one play. There are numerous opportunities for players, coaches, and refs to both succeed and screw up. None of the games that Brown is talking about came down to some sort of last-second call that got kicked; at least not that I am aware of.

3) What little I know about the evaluating process of NBA officials indicates that any official that was doing things that caused a game to be so poorly officiated as to predispose one team to lose, would probably have a very difficult time getting another assignment.

It would be a lot easier to address Brown's quote if it had even some semblance of logic to it. As it was, it not only looked absurd, it sounded that way when he said it. He really just sounded like a whining coach trying to place the blame for embarassing losses somewhere else. Not very becoming.

[MN BB Ref]

JR,

I don't want to get into a discourse on your right to freedom of expression, etc. You have EVERY right in the world to say what you want to whom you want when you want as long as you aren't making terroristic threats or creating a dangerous situation (ie. yelling "fire" in a crowded theatre). However I was attempting to illustrate the point that we are responsible for the image that get attached to our profession because of those types of comments. There seems to be a pack mentality that occurs whenever a fan dares to invade our space and question our body of work. If we have nothing to hide, why do we get all defensive and start slinging arrows back in their direction? In my opinion it seems more productive to enter into an intelligent discourse with that individual and explain how these things could occur. At that point if they become rude, you have the choice to flame away or merely ignore them (just like I teach my 8 year old).

In any case, please don't misinterpret my comments to be that of censure. Our freedom of expression is our GREATEST single liberty in this country and I would never atempt to stifle that.

[MN BB Ref]

Originally posted by drothamel
Regardless of the nature of the discourse, although civility is preferred, I still have major problems with the premises of the argument that Brown makes:

1) There are three officials on every game. Crawford isn't doing the game by himself, he part of a CREW. It would be impossible for him and him alone to determine the outcome of a game. If you want to prove that the officials are directly affecting the outcome of the game, you would need statistics on all of the permutations of crew possibilities.

2) No game comes down to one call or one play. There are numerous opportunities for players, coaches, and refs to both succeed and screw up. None of the games that Brown is talking about came down to some sort of last-second call that got kicked; at least not that I am aware of.

3) What little I know about the evaluating process of NBA officials indicates that any official that was doing things that caused a game to be so poorly officiated as to predispose one team to lose, would probably have a very difficult time getting another assignment.

It would be a lot easier to address Brown's quote if it had even some semblance of logic to it. As it was, it not only looked absurd, it sounded that way when he said it. He really just sounded like a whining coach trying to place the blame for embarassing losses somewhere else. Not very becoming.

I agree completely! Well stated.

[LoudBottom]

Iow, don't play with the bulls and then complain if you get the horn. [/B]

If it was just horns, that's no biggie. It's the other end that I was really hoping not to find. I was also hoping to find something other than angry bulls that might explain some of the lesser known aspects that players might not know about.

[mick]

I'm pretty much excited about this next game.
I have hope.
Go Pistons!

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by MN BB Ref
JR,

I don't want to get into a discourse on your right to freedom of expression, etc. You have EVERY right in the world to say what you want to whom you want when you want as long as you aren't making terroristic threats or creating a dangerous situation (ie. yelling "fire" in a crowded theatre). However I was attempting to illustrate the point that we are responsible for the image that get attached to our profession because of those types of comments. There seems to be a pack mentality that occurs whenever a fan dares to invade our space and question our body of work. If we have nothing to hide, why do we get all defensive and start slinging arrows back in their direction? In my opinion it seems more productive to enter into an intelligent discourse with that individual and explain how these things could occur. At that point if they become rude, you have the choice to flame away or merely ignore them (just like I teach my 8 year old).

In any case, please don't misinterpret my comments to be that of censure. Our freedom of expression is our GREATEST single liberty in this country and I would never atempt to stifle that.

MN, please tell me how you can say in one sentence that I have every right to state my own opinion exactly as I want to, and then in another sentence you then tell me how you think I should post instead?

If I tell you how and what to post, are you gonna say "yassuh, boss" and follow my instructions? Lord, I hope not.

Think about it.

Personally, I have a very low tolerance level when it comes to fanboys who have never officiated a game of basketball in their lives at any level questioning the integrity of dedicated officials-- in any sport. They have every right to do so though. Along with that right, however, comes the equal and similar right for others to respond to them. We, as officials, have to endure verbal abuse from the stands. It's expected- especially at the NBA level. When the "stands" enter our forum, they should expect equal treatment- not special treatment.

I know where you're coming from and I respect your opinion, whether I agree with it or not.

[Edited by Jurassic Referee on Jun 23rd, 2005 at 04:48 PM]

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by LoudBottom

If it was just horns, that's no biggie. It's the other end that I was really hoping not to find. I was also hoping to find something other than angry bulls that might explain some of the lesser known aspects that players might not know about.




[/B]

Bullsh*t!

If you have a question about rules, mechanics, a specific call, etc., or any other aspect related to actual officiating, then you'll never have a problem getting an answer or a civil response here.

If you want to question any official's integrity at any level in any sport, then don't expect to be treated nicely here. We have to put up with ignorant fan at games. We don't have to put up with the same crap here. Find one of the regular fanboy forums that cater to people of your ilk. You can crap on the officials there to your heart's content.

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
MN, please tell me how you can say in one sentence that I have every right to state my own opinion exactly as I want to, and then in another sentence you then tell me how you think I should post instead?

Come on, JR. Now yer just being grouchy for the sake of being grouchy. You have every right in the world to wear black jeans with a belt when you officiate. But in my opinion, you should wear pleated Sansabelts.

Giving one's opinion about your actions in no way infringes on your right to perform that action as you please.