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-   -   Kick or Fist (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/20685-kick-fist.html)

Nevadaref Sat Jun 04, 2005 01:07am

I saw part of the Suns/Spurs last game and a play got me thinking.
After a SA basket, the ball dropped to the floor and bounced up a few feet inbounds. Steve Nash kicked the ball to his teammate who was OOB under the basket and he executed the throw-in.
I also saw a play in an AAU game this past weekend in which, again after a goal, the player who grabbed the ball out of the net tossed it to his OOB teammate who proceeded to punch it back to him. The OOB player never caught the ball. This served as the throw-in and the game continued.

Now forget the NBA, and put both of these plays in an NFHS game. I was thinking that both of these actions are violations. Even though the kick occurs prior to the throw-in, the ball is certainly at the disposal of the throwing team and thus live. The fist is even worse as it occurred during the throw-in itself (or more precisely WAS the throw-in.)

Would you make this call or look the other way? What are your thoughts?



SECTION 4 TRAVEL, KICK, FIST
A player shall not travel with the ball, as in 4-43, intentionally kick it, as in 4-29, strike it with the fist or cause it to enter and pass through the basket from below.
NOTE: Kicking the ball is a violation only when it is an intentional act; accidentally striking the ball with the foot or leg is not a violation.
PENALTY: The ball is dead when the violation occurs and is awarded to the opponents for a throw-in from the designated out-of-bounds spot nearest the violation.

rainmaker Sat Jun 04, 2005 01:36am

Quote:

Originally posted by Nevadaref
I saw part of the Suns/Spurs last game and a play got me thinking.
After a SA basket, the ball dropped to the floor and bounced up a few feet inbounds. Steve Nash kicked the ball to his teammate who was OOB under the basket and he executed the throw-in.
I also saw a play in an AAU game this past weekend in which, again after a goal, the player who grabbed the ball out of the net tossed it to his OOB teammate who proceeded to punch it back to him. The OOB player never caught the ball. This served as the throw-in and the game continued.

Now forget the NBA, and put both of these plays in an NFHS game. I was thinking that both of these actions are violations. Even though the kick occurs prior to the throw-in, the ball is certainly at the disposal of the throwing team and thus live. The fist is even worse as it occurred during the throw-in itself (or more precisely WAS the throw-in.)

Would you make this call or look the other way? What are your thoughts?



SECTION 4 TRAVEL, KICK, FIST
A player shall not travel with the ball, as in 4-43, intentionally kick it, as in 4-29, strike it with the fist or cause it to enter and pass through the basket from below.
NOTE: Kicking the ball is a violation only when it is an intentional act; accidentally striking the ball with the foot or leg is not a violation.
PENALTY: The ball is dead when the violation occurs and is awarded to the opponents for a throw-in from the designated out-of-bounds spot nearest the violation.

I might call the kick, I"m not sure. I'd never call the fist. never.

brandan89 Sat Jun 04, 2005 01:38am

Same here. Kick, but no punch. Or maybe for the puch, a warning will do.

Jurassic Referee Sat Jun 04, 2005 05:51am

I'd slide down a razor blade bannister before I'd call either.

Gotta be better nits to pick than those.

streetball Sat Jun 04, 2005 08:55am

I'd just warn them since there is no advantage.

lukealex Sat Jun 04, 2005 09:47am

I wouldn't call either, maybe just a warning. Both cases are just the player being lazy. Might come back to bite them though, if he/she isn't expecting a press sometime and punches the ball inbounds.

refnrev Sat Jun 04, 2005 12:27pm

I got nothing on either. To me to call the kick is a big stretch on the meaning of that rule. I got no problems with the punch.

BktBallRef Sat Jun 04, 2005 12:54pm

No call.
No warning.
No way.
No how.

Anyone who would call either has no business officiating. JMHO

tjones1 Sat Jun 04, 2005 01:54pm

I've got nothing too. If you start playing the little battles, it's going to turn into one big sh*t storm.

<i>Side note: refnrev, good to see you back on the forum, haven't heard from you in a while.</i>

brianp134 Sat Jun 04, 2005 05:17pm

No calls or warnings on either play.

ChuckElias Sat Jun 04, 2005 05:34pm

I wouldn't warn him that I would call it. But I might warn his coach that it is technically illegal and some over-zealous newbie official might think it needed to be called.

refnrev Sat Jun 04, 2005 08:06pm

Doesn't it seem like to call either of these is being a little too involved in the game? I know we have all worked with guys (or ladies) who just seemed to be looking for things or just needed to be noticed a little too much. AT least I have.

Camron Rust Sun Jun 05, 2005 02:01am

On the "kick", there is nothing to call. I can't think of any violation that can be committed during a dead ball.

On the "fist", it could technically be a violation but I'm not going to call it. That's not the purpose of the rule.

walter Mon Jun 06, 2005 04:18pm

Don't go looking for trouble. Let' em both go and play on.

rainmaker Mon Jun 06, 2005 04:47pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Camron Rust
On the "fist", it could technically be a violation but I'm not going to call it. That's not the purpose of the rule.
I've always been curious about this. What IS the purpose of this rule?


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