1 hand or 2 hands?

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

Well, I'm short...and JR's ugly...so if we did have offspring... [/B]

It'll look like Chuck? [/B][/QUOTE]

Yeah, but with a very bad attitude...

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by M&M Guy

Hey, I kinda like that! Now, did he "draw" them backwards so the table can see them correctly?

That would be Mendy Rudolph, who's in the NBA Hall of Fame(I think).He trained Earl Strom. He was my idol as a young official way back when I started out. Just an amazing presence on the court- seemed to get into about 10% of the arguments that the other officials got into. He just had that much respect from the players and coaches. Mendy was supposedly credited as being the "father" of the modern signalling system. He was one of the first officials(if not the first) to use their hands to denote numbers. The only number that he actually "drew" in the air was "0". He would make several circles in the air with the forefinger of the hand he was using to give that number.

I can think of a better choice of finger to gesture with sometimes.

More useless info for people with too much off-season time on their hands..

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Dan_ref

It'll look like Chuck? [/B]

Yeah, but with a very bad attitude...

[/B][/QUOTE]Oh, like......

[M&M Guy]

The preceeding announcements have been brought to you by the NABCM (National Association of Birth Control Manufacturers).

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

Yeah, but with a very bad attitude...

[/B]

Oh, like......
[/B][/QUOTE]

...yeah...and he'll obviously end up in the gutter...

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

Well, I'm short...and JR's ugly...so if we did have offspring... [/B]

It'll look like Chuck? [/B][/QUOTE]I'm just surprised that it took over an hour for somebody to make that reply!

[BktBallRef]

The number "four, four" is not in the scorebook. Neither is "two, three" or "one, five." The numbers 44, 23, and 15 are in the book. 9 out of 10 scorers that I've asked have told me they would rather have the number as it is read. The mind processes "twenty three" much better than "two, three." And if I'm not mistaken, that's the method the NFHS Officials Manual suggests.

As for hands, I've signaled with two hands during AAU games for the past three years. I've yet to have a scorer call me back to the table. Perhaps it's not for everyone but I think it works. However, I don't see it happening in NFHS. The thing about two hands is that it makes it easier to do while moving. I don't think the NFHS is going to change their stance on stopping while reporting, any time soon.

[bigwhistle]

Originally posted by BktBallRef
The number "four, four" is not in the scorebook. Neither is "two, three" or "one, five." The numbers 44, 23, and 15 are in the book. 9 out of 10 scorers that I've asked have told me they would rather have the number as it is read. The mind processes "twenty three" much better than "two, three." And if I'm not mistaken, that's the method the NFHS Officials Manual suggests.

As for hands, I've signaled with two hands during AAU games for the past three years. I've yet to have a scorer call me back to the table. Perhaps it's not for everyone but I think it works. However, I don't see it happening in NFHS. The thing about two hands is that it makes it easier to do while moving. I don't think the NFHS is going to change their stance on stopping while reporting, any time soon.

Atleast they won't change until NCAA men's mechanics go there first. The NCAA women are the progressive group, followed by the men, and eventually trickling down to the NF.

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by BktBallRef
The mind processes "twenty three" much better than "two, three." And if I'm not mistaken, that's the method the NFHS Officials Manual suggests.

I took a quick look through my manual and it just says to report the number. It doesn't say whether to use "twenty-three" or "two-three". But my manual is all screwed up by IAABO's color charts and stuff. So I don't know if the straight FED manual says anything differently.

However, I don't see it happening in NFHS. The thing about two hands is that it makes it easier to do while moving. I don't think the NFHS is going to change their stance on stopping while reporting, any time soon.

Couldn't agree more.

[Camron Rust]

Originally posted by ChuckElias

I took a quick look through my manual and it just says to report the number. It doesn't say whether to use "twenty-three" or "two-three". But my manual is all screwed up by IAABO's color charts and stuff. So I don't know if the straight FED manual says anything differently.

I'm on the side of reporting it as "twenty-three". It's a lot more natural and far easier to process by the listener(as others have said). Why would anyone ever say "twenty-three" for any other usage if it were more natural?

With "two" "three", you could miss either half and not have a clue that anything was amiss. With "twenty-three", there's a high probabililty that more will follow the "twenty".

In fact "two" "three" is not A number. It's two numbers.

While we're talking about reporting: color first! Then number. The scorer is going to want to know which page to look on before they need to find the line. With number first, they must remember the number until after the color is given, find the correct page, then retrieve the number from the memory banks, and then record the foul...increasing the likelihood of them getting the number wrong or forgetting it.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by ChuckElias

I took a quick look through my manual and it just says to report the number.

Exactly.

"Four, four" is not a number.

"Forty four" is.

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by BktBallRef

Exactly.

"Four, four" is not a number.

"Forty four" is.

This is how we're instructed here in Portland. The rationale is that, if you say "four, four" the scorekeeper might hear only the first "four" and give the foul to the wrong player. If you say "Forty - four" he'll keep listening after the "forty..." since he'll know you're not finished.

Regardless of which way it's done, I think it's smart to be sure you keep the scorekeeper looking at you the whole time. You look at their eyes, and be sure they've seen what you're trying to communicate. If you do that, it doesn't matter nearly as much how you move your hands.

[refTN]

I agree with every point everybody has made but let's get back to the initial question. 1 hand or 2? Like I said at the first if you report "twenty-three" with one hand you announce "twenty-three" and after you have said the whole number you have to show the last number after you have already said the whole thing, so why not announce the number along with raising both hands with the first number on the right hand and the second number on the left hand.

JMHO though. I would love to hear more comments from everyone. I have no problem using one hand I just prefer two. IMO it just makes things easier and more visible, not faster, but easier and more invisible.

I'm not certain so someone can tell me if this is right. when using one hand don't most supervisors want you to report the number between your shoulders and the upper part of the abdomen.

When you use two hands you report in the "box" which starts from your shoulders and extends to just above the top of your head.

[drothamel]

I have always reported with one hand. I have always said "four four" for 44 or "three two" for 32. Although I must say that I do say "eleven" don't know why. If I have a double number, i.e 44, I use one hand and flip it over for the second number. My personal preference is to stop somwhere on the court for the reporting, I don't like reporting on the fly unless I am instructed to do so, too many variables. Plus, stopping usually calls the attention of the table. I have also found that using a strong voice does wonders to avoid table confusion. I can never remember having the table ask me to repeat a number, although I have called a foul on a wrong number a few times; but I guess my reporting was good enough!

Not to muddy the waters, but I always find myself looking at the timekeeper instead of the scorer when I report. Even when I make initial eye contact with the scorer, I end up looking at the timekeeper. Does anyone else do that?

[mplagrow]

Originally posted by drothamel


Not to muddy the waters, but I always find myself looking at the timekeeper instead of the scorer when I report. Even when I make initial eye contact with the scorer, I end up looking at the timekeeper. Does anyone else do that?

That depends. There are other variables that effect who I look at. Such as, are there cheerleaders?