A couple of 3-whistle questions

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by tmp44

I may be wrong on this because I don't have my books with me, but when looking at the mechanics pages in the FED book, doesn't it say to just come straight up with the "jump ball" signal? For example, if I remember correctly, when looking at that chart, anytime you have a violation, it shows you to put the hand up plus the violation mechanic. For the jump ball, it does not show to put the hand up first, only to go straight to the "thumbs in the air."

That being said, Junker your point is well taken, and if I am wrong on what I said above here, is something that I will incorporate into my game.

You are not wrong, junker is.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by tmp44

I may be wrong on this because I don't have my books with me, but when looking at the mechanics pages in the FED book, doesn't it say to just come straight up with the "jump ball" signal? For example, if I remember correctly, when looking at that chart, anytime you have a violation, it shows you to put the hand up plus the violation mechanic. For the jump ball, it does not show to put the hand up first, only to go straight to the "thumbs in the air."

That being said, Junker your point is well taken, and if I am wrong on what I said above here, is something that I will incorporate into my game.

Agreed. Going up with an open hand is used for a violation, not a held ball. Go immediately to the thumbs up!

[tomegun]

Chuck's words about the Trail are pretty good. Running up the court on the volleyball line will feel uncomfortable and cause the Trail to be deeper but it will also open some plays in the corner and down the paint up considerably. Of course given the situation the Trail must move for the best angle.
Calling across the paint isn't the ultimate sin to me because there will be plays when it is needed. Sometimes the C physically cannot see the foul or a secondary defender could have came from my area. On routine plays it is a no-no.
I think the ultimate sin is anything that goes against the crew concept. An example would be if I gave a T to a coach for unsporting behavior and while we are administering the free-throws one of my partners is right next to the coach having a discussion. I know some will disagree but there just isn't a good reason for this to me. Whatever communication I need to do with a coach could be accomplished with space between us. After that I can turn to observe the players. It is almost like "he gave you a T so now I will listen to your sob story." That is just one example. Although it isn't an absolute it is real close.

[Junker]

My point was that, especially in three whistle, you don't want to come with any mechanic until you make eye contact with your partners. I have been told, especially in the case of a scramble for the ball, hit your whistle, get you hand in the air and close in. After you make sure your partners don't have a foul that you didn't see, go to the jump. Coaches get a little irate when you have a double whistle and one guy has a jump and another has a foul. I'm pretty good about eye contact most of the time, but I need to make sure I wait with the mechanic on jump balls. This is something that I've almost always talked about and heard talked about in 3 whistle pregames.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by Junker
My point was that, especially in three whistle, you don't want to come with any mechanic until you make eye contact with your partners. I have been told, especially in the case of a scramble for the ball, hit your whistle, get you hand in the air and close in. After you make sure your partners don't have a foul that you didn't see, go to the jump. Coaches get a little irate when you have a double whistle and one guy has a jump and another has a foul. I'm pretty good about eye contact most of the time, but I need to make sure I wait with the mechanic on jump balls. This is something that I've almost always talked about and heard talked about in 3 whistle pregames.

The proper mechanic is to not use the stop clock signal and go straight up with the jump ball signal. I do not care what coaches say, this is not a double foul situation. If a coach cannot understand that one official has one thing and the other official has something first, then they will just have to get over it.

Peace

[Mark Dexter]

Originally posted by ChuckElias

I think you've got good advice on this so far. Generally, my starting point is the top of the 3-point arc (roughly the 28-ft line) and a couple steps onto the court. I agree with Mark that the Trail should use that "follow the arc" mentality.

I've also seen Trail officials go almost halfway across the court to continue a 5-second count when the dribbler has moved into the C's primary. I happen to like that, although I don't know if it's widely accepted.

I think you will start to see in the women's NCAA mechanics that the will have the Trail start out farther out onto the floor. In my last couple camps with (wait for it) SEC affiliation, they have talked about the the Trail in transition being more in the center of the court. So when the Trail gets into the frontcourt, he/she is probably 10-15 feet onto the floor. What I was told is that in transition as Trail, I should be coming up the court on the "volleyball" line, if you can picture what I mean. On a lot of basketball courts, there are also volleyball markings. Well, it was suggested to me that the Trail follow the volleyball line up the floor. Obviously, when you get to the frontcourt, this puts you much more than one or two steps onto the floor.

I've gotten the arc down once I'm set up in the T position in the frontcourt, and I tend to be a bit closer to the play when bringing the ball upcourt as new trail, but I'm still working on the 'volleyball line' mechanic (I like it, and started using it at camps, but our intramural courts are too small for me to have had it stick.)

[refTN]

I'm young and still learning so if everyone or anyone could explain to me why the Lead should hold his whistle on a play that is coming right to him and in which he has the best look I would love to listen. I believe that the half of the lane opposite the Lead should be a dual area. I know it takes discipline to hold off on this and I try it when I am working 2-man but I just always feel I have the better look.

The only time I feel the C has a better look is when a player gets beat and the player is hacking from behind.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by refTN
I'm young and still learning so if everyone or anyone could explain to me why the Lead should hold his whistle on a play that is coming right to him and in which he has the best look I would love to listen. I believe that the half of the lane opposite the Lead should be a dual area. I know it takes discipline to hold off on this and I try it when I am working 2-man but I just always feel I have the better look.

The only time I feel the C has a better look is when a player gets beat and the player is hacking from behind.

The Center official saw the beginning, middle and end of the play. While the Lead only saw the contact at the very end which does not tell the entire story of what happened. Also, it is completely outside of your coverage area. If you are watching this area as the Lead official, then what are you missing in your area. The mechanics are in place so that if there is something going on at the opposite part of the lane, then rotate. Then when there is contact, you can see the play.

Peace

[refTN]

Thanks JRut. I feel like it was a stupid question now because I did not even think about the C being able to see the whole play. Sorry.

Another question. How do you hold off on something like that though when it is so close to you.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by refTN
I'm young and still learning so if everyone or anyone could explain to me why the Lead should hold his whistle on a play that is coming right to him and in which he has the best look I would love to listen. I believe that the half of the lane opposite the Lead should be a dual area. I know it takes discipline to hold off on this and I try it when I am working 2-man but I just always feel I have the better look.

The only time I feel the C has a better look is when a player gets beat and the player is hacking from behind.

Because generally (not including little kid ball) there are lots of big bodies between the L & the other side of the paint. This means the L doesn't *always* have the best look and the L *usually* is preoccupied with what's going on in front of him.

Also, the C should have the best view of the matchup on his side to pick up LGP and he has the best view of arm contact on short jumpers in the paint & on his side.

The L *might* be able to reach across & help with secondary defenders who come forom his side to the other side but in that case he should probably be moving over anyway to anticipate the wreck.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by refTN

Another question. How do you hold off on something like that though when it is so close to you.

Have patience young Skywalker.

[refTN]

Somebody went and saw Star Wars episode III!!!

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by refTN
Thanks JRut. I feel like it was a stupid question now because I did not even think about the C being able to see the whole play. Sorry.

Another question. How do you hold off on something like that though when it is so close to you.

It is not a stupid question. If you are not experienced in the situation, you would not know.

You hold off on making those calls because you would not be focused there. Does that mean it never happens? Of course it happens, but it should not be a regular occurrence.

Peace

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by refTN
I believe that the half of the lane opposite the Lead should be a dual area. I know it takes discipline to hold off on this and I try it when I am working 2-man but I just always feel I have the better look.

You've got this kind of backwards, somehow. In 3-whistle, the half of the lane that is closer to the C is not dual coverage, it is the C's primary and you should try* to hold your whistle when there's contact there.

In 2-whistle, that area is the Lead's primary and you should not defer to the Trail when there's contact there. A 2-whistle game is not the time for the Lead to practice holding his/her whistle to give a partner first shot at the call.

So turn it around. In your 2-whistle game be aggressive as the Lead on plays in the paint. In your 3-whistle games, force your C to be aggressive on those plays.

*Try not. Do. Or do not. There is no try. (Hey, Episode III just came out. . .)

[Edit: darn, Dan beat me to it ]

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by refTN
Somebody went and saw Star Wars episode III!!!

Probably Sunday

btw...is it safe to say that the first Star Wars movie was born before you were?