team control and and player controp foul humm

[Mark Dexter]

Originally posted by ChuckElias

But each set uses only one signal (hand behind the head for men, fist "punch" for women) for both the PC and TC foul, right?

Per rulebook, yes.

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by ChuckElias

But each set uses only one signal (hand behind the head for men, fist "punch" for women) for both the PC and TC foul, right?

Yes. It still doesn't make it "THE ONE used by college officials" as stated in the first question. That's all I meant.

My guess is one signal and that one signal will be the NCAAW's signal.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by bob jenkins


Yes. It still doesn't make it "THE ONE used by college officials" as stated in the first question. That's all I meant.

My guess is one signal and that one signal will be the NCAAW's signal.

The point is that the NCAA uses only one signal. When you work on the Women's side there is only one signal. If you work on the Men's side there is only one signal. Why would the NF do anything different?

I do not see the NF using the Women's signal, mainly because that would require a change. I think the NF will keep the signal they currently use for PC fouls which is consistent with the Men's game. Why would they change that?

Peace

[ShadowStripes]

Does it really matter? Most guys don't go behind the head anymore. They simply point in the opposite direction.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by ShadowStripes
Does it really matter? Most guys don't go behind the head anymore. They simply point in the opposite direction.

That might be true in some areas. That is not true where I live. It is very rare to see someone not go behind their back with their arm. The ones that do not it is clear they are mainly college officials.

Peace

[ChuckElias]

I'd be shocked if the FED went to the NCAAW "punch", b/c it's a pro mechanic. I can't imagine that they will adopt the pro mechanic.

[Back In The Saddle]

My money is on no TC foul signal at all. We'll simply signal a hold, push, whatever and "going that way."

My rationale: The NFHS is pretty reluctant to make changes to the signal chart. How long did it take them to add the kick signal? And it was really, really obvious and widespread. So in a few years, if we've all settled on a mechanic, they'll adopt it. Here my money is on one fist in the air, other arm pointing "that way."

There was no change announced for the signal chart. That's hardly conclusive, but they announced the kick when they blessed it. They were pretty detailed in this year's announcement, citing exactly what would change.

There are 13 types of fouls listed in 4-19, the TC will make 14. Only four have specific signals: intentional, technical, player control and double. No signal is the stronger precident. For my money, the flagrant is more in need of its own signal than the TC.

[JRutledge]

It would only make since that they have some kind of signal for a team control foul. You will not shoot FTs, so there has to be something used to clarify when that is taking place. I just think they will make it easier this coming year and use the current PC signal. If there is not a signal, then coaches will think these fouls could be result in bonus FTs.

Peace

[ChrisSportsFan]

I presume that we would still shoot FT's for a foul (if it's #7+ for team A) on the rebound where A1 is "on the back", since team control has ended. Am I correct to presume?

[cmathews]

Originally posted by ChrisSportsFan
I presume that we would still shoot FT's for a foul (if it's #7+ for team A) on the rebound where A1 is "on the back", since team control has ended. Am I correct to presume?

Chris, I am not sure you are aware of what you have just done, but rest assured someone will be along soon to explain....but I am with you the foul where team control has ended will be administered the same as in the past....

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally posted by JRutledge
It would only make since that they have some kind of signal for a team control foul. You will not shoot FTs, so there has to be something used to clarify when that is taking place. I just think they will make it easier this coming year and use the current PC signal. If there is not a signal, then coaches will think these fouls could be result in bonus FTs.

Peace

My "bet" is based entirely on extrapolating from what I have seen so far. I admit that it's just guesswork.

Actually, I believe there ought to be a signal for the TC foul. But I don't think it ought to be the PC signal.

The existing PC signal clearly communicates some very specific information: the ball handler committed a foul, the basket cannot count, there will be no bonus shots, and we're going the other way. That meaning is deeply engrained in our culture.

If we use the same signal for the new TC foul, everybody has to unlearn half of what the signal means. It is no longer clear who the foul is on or if the basket will count. On some plays, this may lead to significant confusion.

Like any new rule, it will take time for everybody involved to understand it. However, the TC rule change is very simple, much simpler than the old rule. We only shoot bonus foul shots when the defense fouls. Period. There really is nothing to clarify with regards to bonus free throws.

We still have the PC foul signal to indicate when the ballhandler fouls and the basket cannot count. But for TC fouls, I would like to see a different signal. I believe the fist and the point are pretty clear.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by ChrisSportsFan
I presume that we would still shoot FT's for a foul (if it's #7+ for team A) on the rebound where A1 is "on the back", since team control has ended. Am I correct to presume?

You are right; a rebounding foul will not apply. This is just for fouls by a team that is in control of the ball (by rule) and a team that is in the process of throwing in the ball (by rule a team is not in team control, but for the sake of this rule it is expanded to this case).

Peace

[ChrisSportsFan]

Originally posted by cmathews

Chris, I am not sure you are aware of what you have just done, but rest assured someone will be along soon to explain....but I am with you the foul where team control has ended will be administered the same as in the past....

That's why I said "on the back" referring to the contact on the back. I know it's a push, it's just a shorter wat af stating and everyone understands that contact occured.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by JRutledge

You are right; a rebounding foul will not apply. This is just for fouls by a team that is in control of the ball (by rule) and a team that is in the process of throwing in the ball (by rule a team is not in team control, but for the sake of this rule it is expanded to this case).

Peace

By rule a team *is* in control during a throw-in under ncaa. I think we'll see this change in the new fed rules too.

[blindzebra]

Originally posted by Back In The Saddle

My "bet" is based entirely on extrapolating from what I have seen so far. I admit that it's just guesswork.

Actually, I believe there ought to be a signal for the TC foul. But I don't think it ought to be the PC signal.

The existing PC signal clearly communicates some very specific information: the ball handler committed a foul, the basket cannot count, there will be no bonus shots, and we're going the other way. That meaning is deeply engrained in our culture.

If we use the same signal for the new TC foul, everybody has to unlearn half of what the signal means. It is no longer clear who the foul is on or if the basket will count. On some plays, this may lead to significant confusion.

Like any new rule, it will take time for everybody involved to understand it. However, the TC rule change is very simple, much simpler than the old rule. We only shoot bonus foul shots when the defense fouls. Period. There really is nothing to clarify with regards to bonus free throws.

We still have the PC foul signal to indicate when the ballhandler fouls and the basket cannot count. But for TC fouls, I would like to see a different signal. I believe the fist and the point are pretty clear.

The only difference between the team control and PC foul is the TC does not have to be committed by the player with the ball.

A basket cannot count under EITHER foul, because an airborne shooter foul will still be in the rule, and if the try is released you don't have a TC foul if another A player fouls.

The penalty is the same so the signal will be the same, they won't NEED to change the signal chart.

Am I the only one that waves off the basket on a PC by an airborne shooter?