Mistaken clock not starting error

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

PS- just for the record, in real life I'd do what Tony said to do too. Sell it quickly and get the ball back into play with a repeat throw-in. That's the fair way.

Maybe I'm missing something.

A1 successfully throws the ball in from the end line to mid court. The game ending horn erroneously sounds. You decide to take A allllll the way back to the endline again.

How is this fair to A again?

[blindzebra]

Originally posted by Dan_ref

Maybe I'm missing something.

A1 successfully throws the ball in from the end line to mid court. The game ending horn erroneously sounds. You decide to take A allllll the way back to the endline again.

How is this fair to A again?

You are absolutely missing something.

From the origional post:

So the ball is bouncing, as yet untouched inbounds, and my P, the R, with his back to the ball, sees that the clock is not running. He whistles it dead and tells me that the clock wasn't running. At the whistle, the ball was bouncing right at half-court, still untouched, and B has dropped down to a zone. After the whistle went, A2 picks up the ball, and my P turns around to see A2 has it.

A successful throw-in has not happened.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Dan_ref

Maybe I'm missing something.

A1 successfully throws the ball in from the end line to mid court. The game ending horn erroneously sounds. You decide to take A allllll the way back to the endline again.

How is this fair to A again?

You into the herb again tonight?

This play is about an inadvertant whistle during a throw-in, not a horn during or after a throw-in. Completely different animals. Different rules too.

Iow, You're in the wrong thread, Bozo.

[Dan_ref]

Oh.

Never mind.

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
What difference does it make if the inadvertant whistle occured during a throw-in or field goal attempt? In both cases, you have a live ball with neither team in control when the inadvertant whistle sounded. Both cases are covered under R6-4-3(e), which says that you go to the AP.

What rule do you plan on using to give a repeat throw-in?

Does it matter that the clock is running in one sitch and not the other?

[blindzebra]

Originally posted by rainmaker

Does it matter that the clock is running in one sitch and not the other?

No, because this has nothing to do with time or a timer's error it's an accidental whistle.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally posted by blindzebra

No, because this has nothing to do with time or a timer's error it's an accidental whistle.

JR and BZ:

Since there is no team control during a throw-in are you going to go to the AP Arrow if the L accidentally sounds his whistle while A1 is still holding the ball out of bounds. In both this case and the original play, the throw-in has not ended and there is no team control therefore according to your interpretation, the officials must go to the AP Arrow and if it favors Team B, Team B will receive the ball for a throw-in at the spot that A1 was making Team A's throw-in prior to the L accidently sounding his whistle.

MTD, Sr.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

JR and BZ:

Since there is no team control during a throw-in are you going to go to the AP Arrow if the L accidentally sounds his whistle while A1 is still holding the ball out of bounds. In both this case and the original play, the throw-in has not ended and there is no team control therefore according to your interpretation, the officials must go to the AP Arrow and if it favors Team B, Team B will receive the ball for a throw-in at the spot that A1 was making Team A's throw-in prior to the L accidently sounding his whistle.

Mark, nothing has changed from my post of 8:31pm last night. Nothing!

Are you ever gonna answer the question put to you in that post? It's repeated above in this post too. Again......What rule do you plan on using to justify a repeat throw-in?

[Robmoz]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

Agree. CB 7.5.4(c) to be a l'il more explicit.

How about CB 7.5.4(d) to be a l'il more explicit.....

"..even though, by rule, there is no team control during this dead-ball period, the ball would be given to (the thrower-in team)...The thrower-in team would have clearly received the ball had the official not accidentally sounded his/her whistle."

I think this can be applied to this situation, it sounds like a common sense judgement/correction (as illustrated by MTD's example of A1 still holding the ball OOB when the whistle sounds.)

[JugglingReferee]

I never did say what we did with the sitch.

Now that some discussion has been posted, here is what we did:

We talked about it and two points were brought up:

(a) re-do the throw-in from the original throw-in spot
(b) have an A throw-in from a spot nearest to where the ball was when A2 was 1 foot from the ball and team B players were no closer than 25 feet from the ball

I know that I've done some odd things in the past, and I didn't deviate much from that with this situation. We went with option (b). Team A throw-in at half-court.

If anyone wants the rationale, ask.

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally posted by JugglingReferee
I never did say what we did with the sitch.

Now that some discussion has been posted, here is what we did:

We talked about it and two points were brought up:

(a) re-do the throw-in from the original throw-in spot
(b) have an A throw-in from a spot nearest to where the ball was when A2 was 1 foot from the ball and team B players were no closer than 25 feet from the ball

I know that I've done some odd things in the past, and I didn't deviate much from that with this situation. We went with option (b). Team A throw-in at half-court.

If anyone wants the rationale, ask.

Please, share your rationale.

[JugglingReferee]

We knew that it was reasonable that A could secure the ball without difficulty, and should not be penalized for an official's error.

It was surmised that (a) B clearly was giving A the real estate, as they immediately went to a zone defense, and (b) B didn't mind that A was trying to preserve time on the clock by not touching it until absolutely necessary.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by JugglingReferee
I never did say what we did with the sitch.

Now that some discussion has been posted, here is what we did:

We talked about it and two points were brought up:

(a) re-do the throw-in from the original throw-in spot
(b) have an A throw-in from a spot nearest to where the ball was when A2 was 1 foot from the ball and team B players were no closer than 25 feet from the ball

I know that I've done some odd things in the past, and I didn't deviate much from that with this situation. We went with option (b). Team A throw-in at half-court.

If anyone wants the rationale, ask.

You're right. That's certainly an odd way to handle it.

[stmaryrams]

Originally posted by Nevadaref
That's one good thing about the recent change in the NCAA team control rule. Since there is now team control during a throw-in, you don't have to use the arrow.

For NFHS, if you really want to get it right, you have to use the arrow, and if it is going the other way, you'll get to throw the coach out.

A funny solution which you could use, and still do it by the book, would be to administer the AP throw-in to the opponents and as soon as the kid passes the ball, blow your whistle. Now you have another accidental whistle and the arrow is going back to the team which had it in the first place.

If the first arrow allowed the original team to retain possession, then simply have an accidental whistle during the next AP throw-in and fix it that way.

You're my hero! This may have been one of the best posts ever.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally posted by Nevadaref
For NFHS, if you really want to get it right, you have to use the arrow, and if it is going the other way, you'll get to throw the coach out.

A funny solution which you could use, and still do it by the book, would be to administer the AP throw-in to the opponents and as soon as the kid passes the ball, blow your whistle. Now you have another accidental whistle and the arrow is going back to the team which had it in the first place.

There is a problem with this solution.

If you were to go with the arrow, the arrow is not reversed until the throw-in is completed. Since your solution means blowing the whistle before it is touched inbounds, the only other method to reverse the arrow using a rule, is to claim that the new throw-in team has violated the throw-in provisions.