As I said in the response to the other post, you wouldn't have a count going when the ball was caught at center. The 5-second throw-in count ended when the ball left the thrower's hand(s) on the throw-in.

There's still no definite knowledge available to take exact time off the clock and then give possesssion at center.

What if we're smart enough to anticipate the clock foul up & keep a count going between the time the ball is released & the time the buzzer sounds?

Then what?

you do have knowledge
 

You have the knowledge of how long you had the count for, if it was at 2 when it was released then you go with 2 seconds....I do agree that if you can possibly convince yourself and/or others that the buzzer went off in the air, by all means do so and put 4.1 on the clock and go...if however it was clearly after he caught it, the only definite knowledge you have is the counts you might have been administering...

Re: Re: I am not so sure
 

WILL IT NEVER END??


B1 makes the second of two free throws. A1 throws the inbounds pass to A2 who catches A1's inbounds pass at the division line. The game clock starts when the ball is touched by or touches A2. PERIOD!! It does not matter if the game clock was incorrectly started and the game clock horn's sounded before or as A2 was catching A1's inbounds pass; the sounding of the game clock's horn does not stop play. Only the officials can stop the play in this situation. A1's inbounds pass to A2 is not negated by the fact that the game clock was started incorrectly. Team A receives the ball for a throw-in nearest the spot that A2 caught A1's inbounds pass and the game clock is set at 4.1 seconds.

We can debate whether the game clock should be set at 4.1 seconds or 3.8 seconds per the NBA/WNBA rule, but since NFHS and NCAA does not use the NBA/WNBA rule, the game clock must be set at 4.1 seconds.

This play is not a do-over. I REPEAT: This play is NOT a do-over.

MTD, Sr.

Here we go. The over/under is 4 pages, I got $5 on over.

http://www.vail.k12.az.us/cwehome/ba...ll/popcorn.png

is this a conflict of interest???
 

Hey Dan,
since you are involved in the thread, isn't it a conflict of interest to be involved in the over under bet?? Oh wait sorry I will go post this in the moral question thread.....my bad :D

Push?

This play is not a do-over. I REPEAT: This play is NOT a do-over.

[/B][/QUOTE]There is no rules basis to support the above statement. I REPEAT: There is no rules basis to support the above statement.

If you ever find a rule that will support your fantasy and negate R5-10, Mark, please cite it.

You have the knowledge of how long you had the count for, if it was at 2 when it was released then you go with 2 seconds....I do agree that if you can possibly convince yourself and/or others that the buzzer went off in the air, by all means do so and put 4.1 on the clock and go...if however it was clearly after he caught it, the only definite knowledge you have is the counts you might have been administering... [/B][/QUOTE]And the count you were administering was 2 seconds <b>plus</b> an indeterminate, unknown amount of time the ball spent in the air after it left the thrower's hands until the horn went. You do not have definite knowledge of that exact time the ball was in the air from the cessation of your count until the sounding of the horn. If the ball was caught, you also don't have any exact knowledge of how much time it took to catch the ball until the horn then sounded either. That's why you cannot use R5-10 in this case and place the ball at center. That has always been the flaw in MTD Sr's argument.

JR, I don't disagree that there is not exact knowledge, but the two seconds or whereever the count was, is the closest thing to definite knowledge that you have...Again I say if you can reasonably say that the horn went off in the air then bring it back and go with 4.1 and repeat, but my assertation is that if it is obviously after the catch you have to go with the time you definitely know should not have come off the clock....and the only thing you can know is that the count you were at is the time that should not have come off the clock...if it is 2 seconds that is your definite knowledge, if it is 1 then that is it...Like I said it isn't exact knowledge, but it is definite.

I'll take the under.

And, to summarize: Depending on how you read the rules / cases, there either is or is not rules support for almost anything you might or might not do.