Since it's a topic this year....

[Nevadaref]

Juulie,
I wrote what I did because these things that you wrote made it seem like you didn't understand the rules correctly.

Originally posted by rainmaker

Did the refs signal a 3? If not, I don't think this is fixable.

That's not true. A 2 can be changed to a 3 or a 3 can be changed to a 2.

Originally posted by rainmaker

A scoretable error is, (I mean, if they wrote in 2 instead of 3), but not under 2-10. Is the correctable error rule different in college than hs?

No, it's the same, although a TV monitor is allowed to be used.

Originally posted by rainmaker
In high school, this isn't a correctable error. The coach can't go to the table for this, and there's no "charged or not-charged a time-out".

Not true at all. It does fall under 2-10. Specifically, erroneously counting or cancelling a score (that extra point). The coach is certainly allowed to go to the table and request the TO to appeal the decision on the court.

Originally posted by rainmaker
But it is fixable up to the time the book is signed off, and the refs are off the court. ... if the refs had signalled a 3. If they thought it was a 2, then it's just too bad for that team.

Clearly you know bookkeeping mistakes. Of course, that last sentence is confusing. I'll add that in NFHS play the officials don't have access to a TV monitor, but they can use the table crew for added information. Perhaps one of them clearly saw the play. This is an option rather than just saying, "We didn't see it. Too bad, coach."

[Rich]

Originally posted by Nevadaref
Juulie,
I wrote what I did because these things that you wrote made it seem like you didn't understand the rules correctly.

That's not true. A 2 can be changed to a 3 or a 3 can be changed to a 2.

No, it's the same, although a TV monitor is allowed to be used.

Not true at all. It does fall under 2-10. Specifically, erroneously counting or cancelling a score (that extra point). The coach is certainly allowed to go to the table and request the TO to appeal the decision on the court.

Clearly you know bookkeeping mistakes. Of course, that last sentence is confusing. I'll add that in NFHS play the officials don't have access to a TV monitor, but they can use the table crew for added information. Perhaps one of them clearly saw the play. This is an option rather than just saying, "We didn't see it. Too bad, coach."

Unless I was working a tournament game at a neutral site, I simply wouldn't do this. Many of our table personnel have enough trouble working the clock/book.

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by Nevadaref
Clearly you know bookkeeping mistakes. Of course, that last sentence is confusing. I'll add that in NFHS play the officials don't have access to a TV monitor, but they can use the table crew for added information. Perhaps one of them clearly saw the play. This is an option rather than just saying, "We didn't see it. Too bad, coach."

Look at 2.10.1G and repeat that last sentence if you dare!

[Nevadaref]

Originally posted by rainmaker

Look at 2.10.1G and repeat that last sentence if you dare!

I can't deny the wording of the case book play -- "neither official cleary observed" -- so you certainly have the position of strength on this point.

After thinking more about it, perhaps it makes more sense to confine the scorer and timer to giving information only about scoring or timing issues and leave them completely out of calls made or not made on the court. Yeah, I'll change my mind and agree; don't ask your table crew.

[Camron Rust]

Originally posted by rainmaker

Camron, did you see the play on Tuesday evening? The ref whistled it dead right in the middle of the opponent's play. They weren't actively attacking, but they were trying to do something.

No...didn't watch the game. Not particularly interested. Didn't even know it was on.

Originally posted by rainmaker
Also, I don't understand what you say about a ref signalling or not signalling a 3-point shot. You said, "indicating a 2 (by lack of a signal) and it should have been a 3 is no different than indicating a 3 when it should be a 2." What does "should have been" mean? If the refs didn't signal, doesn't that mean it wasn't a 3? That's in effect a no-call, right? Can the coach stop the game to argue a no-call? I don't understand your point here.

If the refs didn't signal, it means they didn't count it as a 3. If it is addressed before the correctable error time has expired, they can correct the score.

It's possible one ref saw it was a three (but out of their primary) and didn't signal thinking that their partner(s) had it covered. But, for some reason, they didn't have it covered. It's a correctable error.

Since there is no such think as a no-call in the rule book that is not what is being questioned. They can, however, question if a shot was counted correctly. Usually, this doesn't happen when the opponent has the ball but there's nothing prohibiting an official from stopping the game at any point to rectify an error. The scorers are instructed to delay signaling the official until the other team loses the ball however.

[rainmaker]

I'm bringing this thread forward to ask a couple more questions, since I was reviewing the game again last night.

(1) So, this was a college game (in fact THE college game of the year) and was played under NCAAW rules. Was it handled correctly? Apparently from what several of you have said, stopping the game in the middle of an opponents' play was within the rules, but is it acceptable? I know, I know, if they do it in the championship game, it must be right, but I don't understand that. It didn't seem right to me.

(2) If it had been a high school game under Fed rules, and the stoppage was at an appropriate place in the game, what was done would have been within the rules, but a TO would also have been charged to the team that asked for the correction, am I right? But under college rules, this isn't a correctable error, so no TO is charged?

[Camron Rust]

Originally posted by rainmaker
I'm bringing this thread forward to ask a couple more questions, since I was reviewing the game again last night.

(1) So, this was a college game (in fact THE college game of the year) and was played under NCAAW rules. Was it handled correctly? Apparently from what several of you have said, stopping the game in the middle of an opponents' play was within the rules, but is it acceptable? I know, I know, if they do it in the championship game, it must be right, but I don't understand that. It didn't seem right to me.

(2) If it had been a high school game under Fed rules, and the stoppage was at an appropriate place in the game, what was done would have been within the rules, but a TO would also have been charged to the team that asked for the correction, am I right? But under college rules, this isn't a correctable error, so no TO is charged?

#1. Sometimes, yes. Recommended, usually not. Example. A1 scores what is apparently a 2 with 30 seconds left in the game to put them up by 2. B1 dribbling at half court with 20 seconds on the clock when coach a request a correction. Stop the game immediately. It's valualbe to both teams to get it correct if it needs to be corrected at that time. For A, it'll potentially be worth an extra point, putting them up by 3. For B, their last play will be dictated by the score as they see it. If they go for the apparent tie with a layup at the buzzer, they're going to be really pissed if the correction is addressed at that time and it results in a 3. Now they've lost when they ran a play for the tie.

#2. In HS, a TO is charge when the game is stopped for a correctable error challenge that is leads to no correction. The TO is not charge if a correction is made. I'm not sure for college.

[Edited by Camron Rust on May 14th, 2005 at 03:45 AM]