What do you do?

majkirk · #1 (**permalink**) Tue Mar 13, 2001, 09:10pm

Three minutes to play home team winning 60-59, when home team fouls visiting team, two-shot foul. Fan comes out of stands and starts yelling at officials. Officials warn home coach to get individual off court. Coach trys and fails. Coach then gets Technical Foul assesed. Fan still not leaving and coach gets second technical and ejection. School has no security or anyone to get this guy out of there. Finally, as coach leaves the fan starts to depart, but then stays at door and begins to yell at officials again. Coach is out of the facility at this time. Officials call game and award victory to visiting team. Did they make the right decision?

JRutledge · #2 (**permalink**) Tue Mar 13, 2001, 09:49pm

I think you should never penalize the players or the coach for the behavior of fans. I think the only time that you should do this is if the situation gets that bad maybe, and just maybe you forfeit the game. But I would not continue until the man is removed from the game. And that would also make me think twice about working at a game with no security. But the official might not have know that before the game either. But it is not like he handled the thing completely wrong. I guess what I am saying is I was not there and if I was things might have been different or maybe not.

AK ref SE · #3 (**permalink**) Tue Mar 13, 2001, 09:58pm

I think what I would have done! It is easy being an armchair referee!!!! Asked the coach to call the police, if this guy was being that much of a pain. If the coach balked at this you could resort to plan A. T him up, Plan B call the game, or plan C get a post on the forum and hope for a quick response!!!

AK ref SE

Hawks Coach · #4 (**permalink**) Tue Mar 13, 2001, 10:44pm

AK Ref - Plan B doesn't work. How do we have a direct T to coach under bench T rules? Nothing about fans in that section. This is an out of control fan - 2-8-1 allows a technical to be assessed to the home team if unable to control fan behavior, and emphasizes discretion must be used. In this case, it had to be direct because he was gone after two, and AK you support that as a potential solution. Under your reasoning, the coach has an ejection on his record when he tried to do what the offical was unable to do. Also, since it is a team T not a bench T, there is no indirect to the coach as I read the rules, so no way the coach goes even after 5 team Ts.

This decision makes no sense to me. You have wrongfully ejected the one person who is in authority who also may be able ultimately (maybe after a team T) to get this fan under control and out of the gym. What is plan B for the fan once you bounce the coach from the gym? Officials don't appear to carry a lot of weight with this guy.

mick · #5 (**permalink**) Tue Mar 13, 2001, 11:22pm

Quote:

Originally posted by JRutledge

But I would not continue until the man is removed from the game.

BktBallRef · #6 (**permalink**) Tue Mar 13, 2001, 11:51pm

I agree with mick and Rut that the game should not continue untile the fan is removed. I also agree with Hawks' Coach. There's absolutely nothing in the rulebook that allows the head coach to be assessed a technical foul in this situation.

Bad decision.

Brian Watson · #7 (**permalink**) Wed Mar 14, 2001, 09:20am

In my younger, slightly more irresponsible days I called a T on a team for a fan coming out onto the floor. I should have just stopped play and let game management handle it but hey, it happened pretty quick.

I assessed a team T. I think it was wrong to boot the coach. When there is no authority figure at the gym, the home coach is the game management. I can see issuing a team T for him not making an effort to remove the guy, but I think it was wrong to break out the boot.

On a side note, should he have ended the game? I would have just waited until the guy was gone and resumed play. If that means both teams and us go back to the locker room for a few, so be it. The game is for the kids and I am going to try my darndest to let them finish it. Those kids had no control over this idiot coming on the floor, and the kid whose parent that was probably wanted to die, so why punish them further by ending the game?

Dan_ref · #8 (**permalink**) Wed Mar 14, 2001, 10:06am

I'll add my 2 cents and say also I agree with Rut that
the best thing to do is stop the game until the bad fan
leaves. And when you do this go find a nice quiet place to
wait away from the court until things settle down,
particularly if there's no security. How long to wait?
I think you wait as long as needed, if things don't
settle down call the police.

AK ref SE · #9 (**permalink**) Wed Mar 14, 2001, 12:13pm

Hawk coach! I guess I should have highlighted CALL THE POLICE! This would have been my first choice! If we did not have game security to handle the situation. I have never called a T on a team for fans, As a matter of fact where I referee the coach has a very good handle on this! We have made so unfavorable calls to the home team, and certain words(&!@^%$#^@#) have been yelled in unison, he has asked for a time out grabbed the microphone and has told the crowd this will not be tolerated, another outburst like this and it will cost his team a T.

AK ref SE

Camron Rust · #10 (**permalink**) Wed Mar 14, 2001, 02:38pm

The original post was ambiguous about why the T was called on the coach. If it was called because of the fan on the floor, then I too agree that it was the wrong thing to do.

However, if the coach was reacting to a call (presumably the same as the fan was), then he may have independantly earned the T. If that is assumed, then the question is about how to handle an inteferring fan when you have a coach how is being disagreeable and there is no other authority. In such a case, an official may eventually be forced to call a forfeit. With a coach being ejected, there would have to be an assistant to take over. That assistant now has the charge of removing the fan. If there is no assistant to take over the coaching role, the game can not continue...an automatic forfeit. A random parent or fan can not take over...they must be a person approved by the school (liability issues). If the assistant still refuses to comply, the official may be forced to call a forfeit.

mick · #11 (**permalink**) Wed Mar 14, 2001, 02:55pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Camron Rust
If there is no assistant to take over the coaching role, the game can not continue...an automatic forfeit. A random parent or fan can not take over...they must be a person approved by the school (liability issues). If the assistant still refuses to comply, the official may be forced to call a forfeit.

Camron,
This sounds familiar, but where may I read it?
Thanks,
mick

Hawks Coach · #12 (**permalink**) Thu Mar 15, 2001, 01:22pm

In AAU, for those of you who may be gearing up, you must be carded and listed on the team roster to sit on the bench. If you card and roster the max players, 15, you can only have 3 adults listed in any capacity (and that may be the limit anyway). I think you have to list at least one assistant, but not sure on that rule. Something to be aware of if you end up in any unique situations. But I also don't know if this is your issue or whether it is more like player eligibility, something for the league/tournament/organization to deal with after the fact if a rule is violated. Clearly, the issue of having a responsible adult is different from that of having an eligible player with regard to continuing a contest.