never again

[Robmoz]

Put me down as in favor of working the rec leagues. Most times I hear the refs complaining about the complaining I ask them if they made use of the T's and other game management techniques in an effort to TRY and makes things better for the game at hand. More often than not the refs said they did not dole out the T's. Let me say this about Rec Ball, sometimes you MUST take charge of the situation early and firmly otherwise you will only be fish food for the sharks. There is no need for you to get into conversations on rules, judgements, or procedures -- it is your floor!

Strong game management skills is what gets you promoted to do higher level work (if you aspire to do so). Game management is what gets you peace of mind in knowing that you can handle the tough situations. Game management is what gets you respect from the participants far quicker than anything else. I encourage all of you to work the rec leagues (at all levels) and sieze the opporunity to work on those game management skills.

Don't get lazy and develop bad habits just because it is a rec league rather use the game time to work on the mechanics, positioning, communcation, and management skills with which we ALL NEED PRACTICE.

• Don't take any crap from any player, coach, parent, or fan.
• Dole out the T effectively after the first stop sign.
• Enforce the rules like lane violations, substitutions, coaches box, and hand-checking strictly by the book.
• Dole out the T again if the message is not heard the first time.

If they want to complain and whine, they can do so from the parking lot unless YOU LET THEM MANAGE YOU!

Don't be scared.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by ChrisSportsFan

Did you say it was fast pitch, slow pitch or both? LOL
Last summer I worked slow pitch 1-2 night per week and decided that it would not be worth it this year.

Sorry I meant fast pitch. It has been a very long two weeks.

Peace

[JRutledge]

I cannot think of the last time I had to throw out a coach or player in a basketball game at the HS or JH level. When I watch games on TV, it is very rare it happens there. I have no problem giving out Ts if the actions warrant it. If I have to give a T every single game, that is a problem. I do not want to have to remove someone every single game because I am doing my job. We do not need that crap. Not sure how that makes someone better as an official? We take enough crap as it is every time we officiate a game. Why do I want to work a game that is not like the games I want to achieve at?

Peace

[ChrisSportsFan]

Originally posted by Bush in 2004

Very well stated. When I first started reffing for real, rec league is where I was. The first couple nights I got my @$$ chewed up one side and down the other. That's how long it took me to realize that these guys can only give you as much crap as YOU LET THEM. Start throwin some Ts, early and often, and eventually the ones with half a brain will shut up and start playing basketball. While a lot of "seasoned" officials in the areas I've worked feel that once they've got a full varsity schedule, they're too good to do rec league anymore, I have continued to do rec league for a couple of reasons.

1. I can always use the exercise, and why not get paid for it.

2. The more you work, no matter the level or league, it will help me improve my abilities as an official.

3. A lot of guys who PLAY in rec league feel it's a place to blow off a little steam. SO DO I!! While I will let more go when it comes to talkin and sportsmanship and all in a rec league game then I ever will in a high school game, there is STILL a line. I make sure and let the player know when it's time to shut up, but if he doesn't hear me, nothing feels better then the big ole TWEEEEEEEEEEEEETTTTTTTTT followed by the capital T formed in front of my torso. Hell, if I'm feeling REALLY good, I'll make it one of the ole heaven and hell Ts.

Bottom line, don't let a couple @$$holes run you out of something you enjoy doing. In all reality, on any given night, YOU hold the power to keep THEM from playing if they don't want to play. When you don the stripes and the whistle, it's YOUR FLOOR and they play by YOUR RULES. And don't get me wrong, I'm not saying to make up the rules as you go along. But sometimes you have to rule with an iron fist.

You both stated your points very well and I agree with what you've said.
Ring ring: Hello this is Chris.
caller: hey Chris do you want to ref some games tonight for our men's league?
Me: No thanks.

[ChrisSportsFan]

Originally posted by Bush in 2004

If you've got a more detailed explanation then that, as a friend, I'd be interested in hearing it. I'm just curious.

I said a friend so first of all, I have to decide if you are a friend ;-) I think it's only fair to make sure said friend knows exactly what they are getting into. Countless times I've heard people here and also heard friends say that it wasn't sooooo bad the first week or 3 but after that it went down hill fast. If I could pick my partners, it might be better because we could stick to correct mechanics, but working with career rec refs on these men's league games just doesn't work. Why you ask?
1. They don't usually support your calls because generally they don't know how.
2. Your mechanics go in the toilet because they don't know them and if they do they don't want to switch so they can save energy.
3. The role model for rule with these players is the NBA.
I could go on and on but I've gotta get something done today.

[mthomas]

Last year I stopped doing Adult Basketball League games. I asked myself why I was doing these games? Is it fun? NO. Is it worth the money? NO. Am I getting anything out of officiating the Adult Basketball League? NO. Do the players appreciate having officials? NO.

So for these reasons, I only officiate youth recreational basketball and school level games (varsity and below).

My last adult game last year ended this way: (long story made short)--During the 1st half, I ejected 1 fan, for swearing at me, threating me and pretending to throw the ball at me (the ball had gone out of bounds, to him).

I had given out a few warnings to the players during the game to "play basketball,not officiate." One team had only 5 players to start the game, early in the 4th quarter, I threw out 2 players from this team (after yelling at me about a call, swearing and trying to physically intimidate me). I stopped the game, delcaring a forfeit victory for the opposing team. Police were called after receving numerous threats from players, received a police escort out of the gym and all the way to the town line.

I do have lots of experience in officiating Adult Basketball League games. I also directed a Men's Basketball League for 11 years. It got so childish that if a player received a technical foul he was assessed a $25 fine on the spot, before he could play again. If he got ejected, he was suspended for the rest of the season. If any player received 3 technicals over the course of the season, he was suspended for the rest of the season. These policies cleaned up the league. I made sure that the officials knew that I was going to back them. But it should NEVER have to get to this point. Yes, you must run these programs and officiate these programs with an iron fist.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by mthomas
I do have lots of experience in officiating Adult Basketball League games. I also directed a Men's Basketball League for 11 years. It got so childish that if a player received a technical foul he was assessed a $25 fine on the spot, before he could play again. If he got ejected, he was suspended for the rest of the season. If any player received 3 technicals over the course of the season, he was suspended for the rest of the season. These policies cleaned up the league. I made sure that the officials knew that I was going to back them. But it should NEVER have to get to this point. Yes, you must run these programs and officiate these programs with an iron fist.

That is also a big part of the problem. Administrators of the league do not support many of the officials and their decisions on calls and ejections. You really are not going to know what kind of administrator you will have until and incident takes place most of the time. Unfortunately the administrators often times know nothing about officiating and you can get little to no help from these people when situations get messy. I personally would rather pass. I work high school and college ball because I know what is going to happen if I have to throw someone out or even T them. I have no idea what is going to happen if I do the same in a Men's league. That is why more and more officials that I know would not even bother.

Peace

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally posted by OverAndBack
Men's league did me in. After a particularly bad experience a couple of weeks ago, I'm shutting it down and re-evaluating whether or not I ever want to officiate another basketball game. I'll see how I feel after going to a clinic in the summer and when next season approaches, but as of right now, I don't particularly care to ever pick up the whistle again.

I have been there, my friend. There are two games that stick out in my mind as being points when I really, really questioned whether I ever wanted to do this again. One was a church game, and one was a mens rec game.

The first time, it was lucky that I had some other games already scheduled, or I would have retired. No doubt about it. The mens game was in my second year, and I had enough experience by then to know that game was an abhoration.

Go to the clinic. Work some non-mens (meaning more mature) games, and I'll bet the enthusiasm returns.

[Snake~eyes]

Originally posted by JRutledge
I cannot think of the last time I had to throw out a coach or player in a basketball game at the HS or JH level. When I watch games on TV, it is very rare it happens there. I have no problem giving out Ts if the actions warrant it. If I have to give a T every single game, that is a problem. I do not want to have to remove someone every single game because I am doing my job. We do not need that crap. Not sure how that makes someone better as an official? We take enough crap as it is every time we officiate a game. Why do I want to work a game that is not like the games I want to achieve at?

This is how I feel. I refuse to work adult recball. I do work a good amount of youth but I will quit that somday too. I just feel that being harassed isn't worth it. I gave out plenty of Ts in recball but its just going to decline. I'd rather work with a partner who knows the rules, mechanics and everything else in a game where I don't have fans close to me and where coaches/players have somthing to lose/gain. I'd stay if it weren't for the @$$holes but its their loss, many officials will quit recball because of them.

[stmaryrams]

Was asked last year to do a Men's Rec tourney with a cash payout to the winning teams.

You think Men's Rec would be bad, can you imagine cash on the line.

Needless to say, I respectfully declined.

And it had nothing to do with the $10 per game they were offering officials either.

[ChrisSportsFan]

Originally posted by stmaryrams
Was asked last year to do a Men's Rec tourney with a cash payout to the winning teams.

You think Men's Rec would be bad, can you imagine cash on the line.

Needless to say, I respectfully declined.

And it had nothing to do with the $10 per game they were offering officials either.

$10 a game, how can you turn down that kind of jack? They probably acted like that was some kind of favor to you or something. I bet that tourney went horrible.

[Adam]

I would have been tempted to go watch this tourney.

[Junker]

Money was part of the poblem. I took the games in a "church tournament" and a couple of days later I found out there was $1000 first place. That's when I knew I was in trouble. I play league with some of the guys that were there. It'll be interesting to see how they act this week when I show up to play. I have no trouble forgetting who said what, but I'm guessing some of them will. Oh well, I'm chalking it up to a lesson learned.

[IowaMike]

I worked a lot of youth rec league/weekend tournaments when I first started officiating. It was good experience and I made a lot of contacts that led to getting better games. When starting out, you just need to get the work and experience on the floor. I cut way back on these types of games after a few years once I had a full organized public school schedule and last year I only worked one weekend tournament as a favor to a guy who has given me a lot of games in the past (ejected a coach three minutes into the championship game). I just don't enjoy doing them anymore, the poor behavior by coaches and fans just isn't worth the 15-20 bucks a game. I know some very experienced guys who still work a lot of these games, but it is strictly for the money and they certainly give less than their best effort. This contributes to the problem because guys just want to get the game over with and don't force the coaches to behave. They just ignore them to "keep the game moving".

I worked mens rec games one time. Our association was asked to provide officials last March for a mens tournament of teams composed of police officers, firefighters and correctional officers. Worst experience of my life. Worked three games, had two fistfights, a number of ejections and more T's than I can recall. The biggest bunch of jerks I have ever seen on a basketball court. The VP of basketball for our association was there evaluating the officials and he apologized to all of us for taking the games. To top it all off, they stiffed us for part of the game fees. Took us about two months to get all of the money owed to us. I would never, ever work another mens league game, but everyone has their own pain threshold.

[closely_guarded]

The team in the field argued emphatically that he caught the ball. They even told me "the ground cannot cause a fumble."

Yeah, but did you put time back on the clock??