Correct FT Mechanic?

[zebraman]

Originally posted by Back In The Saddle
here's what the NFHS manual says:

242, 352. For all free throws, the Lead official shall:
e. Bounce the ball to the thrower, and back out of the lane. The position of the lead offical should be approximately 4 feet from the nearer lane line well off the endline.

Personally I prefer to be up by the bottom player along the lane if there will be additional shots. It gives me a chance to talk to this guy, gives a visual cue that there will be more shots, puts me in a position to answer the occassional "How many shots was that, Ref?" question, and makes it easier to catch the first free throw before it hits the ground (which, IMHO, just looks sharp. Not sure how that plays with zebraman's opinion that it looks lazy, what say ye?)

Didn't mean to hit a nerve guys. Maybe the reason I thought "lazy" was because somewhere in my tiny brain I read in the official's manual that we're supposed to be off the lane and off the line. I think it looks sharp to catch the first of two out of the net as well and I generally run in and grab it before it hits the floor. In the huge spectrum of things, where you stand is probably not at the top of the big deal list.

Z

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally posted by zebraman

Didn't mean to hit a nerve guys. Maybe the reason I thought "lazy" was because somewhere in my tiny brain I read in the official's manual that we're supposed to be off the lane and off the line. I think it looks sharp to catch the first of two out of the net as well and I generally run in and grab it before it hits the floor. In the huge spectrum of things, where you stand is probably not at the top of the big deal list.

Z

I take no offense at your statement. When I'm off the lane, I'm usually back quite a ways, so I'm not going to be able to get to the ball before it hits the floor. So in my tiny brain I was thinking of them as mutually exclusive and just wondered which you thought might be more important. But it seems you've mastered both

[WyMike]

Originally posted by Back In The Saddle

I take no offense at your statement. When I'm off the lane, I'm usually back quite a ways, so I'm not going to be able to get to the ball before it hits the floor. So in my tiny brain I was thinking of them as mutually exclusive and just wondered which you thought might be more important. But it seems you've mastered both

Point is...

When you have a group of first year officials working the *small* games the "pros" no longer do or want to do, isn't best to work the mechanics as they're stated and shown? And then a guy can modify what he wants at a later time?

I've been lobbying for an association *approved* mentor program for the coming season and hopefully I can get one or two of the State Tourney guys to work a number of good games with me. Going to the point of volunteering my time if there is any extra work associated with it.

One bad habit developing will eventually lead to another and what really bites is having your partner *wave you off* in front of a crowd when you're trying to switch with him after a foul report. Nice. Or better yet, having him call a tic-tac foul from teh opposite T side while you're L directly in front of their bench and coach. That's a nice one too. I wonder who's watching his primary and off ball areas???

Like I said, it's bad enough not getting an experienced guy to help you improve, but it's worse when you're working with someone who can't even tell you what section the definitions are in. So I doubt they're reviewing any of the books too often and just using their TV/NBA/NCAA/old playing day knowledge to work the game.

"Hey didn't you read the POE stuff?"

"What's that???"

Rant over...

btw, I have 15 games in a 5th - 9th grade tourney this weekend. An additional 3 more 30+ Al Bundy League games, the Bundy League Championships and I'm also hoping to get into the college intramural State tourney too which will be held here in two weeks.

Anyone want to work with a hard working partner???

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally posted by WyMike

Point is...

When you have a group of first year officials working the *small* games the "pros" no longer do or want to do, isn't best to work the mechanics as they're stated and shown? And then a guy can modify what he wants at a later time?

I've been lobbying for an association *approved* mentor program for the coming season and hopefully I can get one or two of the State Tourney guys to work a number of good games with me. Going to the point of volunteering my time if there is any extra work associated with it.

One bad habit developing will eventually lead to another and what really bites is having your partner *wave you off* in front of a crowd when you're trying to switch with him after a foul report. Nice. Or better yet, having him call a tic-tac foul from teh opposite T side while you're L directly in front of their bench and coach. That's a nice one too. I wonder who's watching his primary and off ball areas???

Like I said, it's bad enough not getting an experienced guy to help you improve, but it's worse when you're working with someone who can't even tell you what section the definitions are in. So I doubt they're reviewing any of the books too often and just using their TV/NBA/NCAA/old playing day knowledge to work the game.

"Hey didn't you read the POE stuff?"

"What's that???"

Rant over...

btw, I have 15 games in a 5th - 9th grade tourney this weekend. An additional 3 more 30+ Al Bundy League games, the Bundy League Championships and I'm also hoping to get into the college intramural State tourney too which will be held here in two weeks.

Anyone want to work with a hard working partner???

Sure. I prefer to keep working hard, even when working rec ball, etc. But I'm not up for 15 games in a weekend. Us old guys will still work hard, just not for as long

[zebraman]

Originally posted by WyMike

Anyone want to work with a hard working partner???

You betcha WyMike, I enjoy working with guys like you. I might have been able to do 15 games in a weekend about 10 years ago, but now that I hit 40 years old my limit is about 3 in a row (not only physically but mentally).

Z

[WyMike]

Originally posted by zebraman

You betcha WyMike, I enjoy working with guys like you. I might have been able to do 15 games in a weekend about 10 years ago, but now that I hit 40 years old my limit is about 3 in a row (not only physically but mentally).

Z

Sorry to hear that zebraman... I hear Celebrex is helping others. Do you work out or exercise other than reffing?

I'll be 45 this summer. On the plus side though my fiance is 11 years my junior! My fountain of youth maybe???

(8 games on Saturday and 7 on Sunday. Still too many?)

[zebraman]

Originally posted by WyMike

Sorry to hear that zebraman... I hear Celebrex is helping others. Do you work out or exercise other than reffing?

I'll be 45 this summer. On the plus side though my fiance is 11 years my junior! My fountain of youth maybe???

(8 games on Saturday and 7 on Sunday. Still too many?)

LOL, I'm really getting taken literal today. At least you didn't tell me that I needed Viagara.

Yes, I work out with weights and cardio year-round. I'm in excellent shape. I probably COULD ref 15 games in a weekend, but I just have no desire to. I might do a couple games some weekend to help one of the rec ball leagues out (or if a new official asked me to work with them), but otherwise I'd rather be home with my family (the wife is 8 years younger but we're still Viagara free) or on a golf course. TMI! TMI!

I am on crutches right now, but that's from an injury that even a young whippersnapper could have suffered!

Z

[ChuckElias]

The FT "mechanic" that bugs me is when the Lead official decides that he needs to tell the table how many FTs are being shot. He does this after the new Trail has informed the table and both of his partners as to how many FTs will be shot; as well as after the Center has signaled to the table before starting his count.

Why does this "mechanic" keep perpetuating itself? The Lead doesn't need to communicate this to the table.

[mj]

Originally posted by ChuckElias
The FT "mechanic" that bugs me is when the Lead official decides that he needs to tell the table how many FTs are being shot. He does this after the new Trail has informed the table and both of his partners as to how many FTs will be shot; as well as after the Center has signaled to the table before starting his count.

Why does this "mechanic" keep perpetuating itself? The Lead doesn't need to communicate this to the table.

I agree 100% on this one Chuck. The trail should already have signaled to the table that 2 throws will be taken. Plus, the lead should have held up the two fingers and announced "2" prior to bouncing the ball to the shooter.

FWIW, I stand next to the player on the first FT. Excellent communication time as well as a reminder to myself that another shot is coming.

[Mark Dexter]

Originally posted by ChuckElias
The FT "mechanic" that bugs me is when the Lead official decides that he needs to tell the table how many FTs are being shot. He does this after the new Trail has informed the table and both of his partners as to how many FTs will be shot; as well as after the Center has signaled to the table before starting his count.

Why does this "mechanic" keep perpetuating itself? The Lead doesn't need to communicate this to the table.

I picked it up from doing the book for D-I games. I so rarely see the C signal the number of shots that I thought it was an actual change in the CCA mechanics.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally posted by Back In The Saddle
I don't have access to the CCA mechanics manual, but here's what the NFHS manual says:

240, 350. In administering all free throws:
e. The Lead official will visually and verbally indicate the number of throws to be administered, bounces the ball to the thrower, and backs out of the lane. The poisition of the Lead official should be appriximately 4 feet from the nearer lane line well off the end line.

242, 352. For all free throws, the Lead official shall:
e. Bounce the ball to the thrower, and back out of the lane. The position of the lead offical should be approximately 4 feet from the nearer lane line well off the endline.

I cannot see where it indicates a different mechanic if there will be an additional free throw(s).

Personally I prefer to be up by the bottom player along the lane if there will be additional shots. It gives me a chance to talk to this guy, gives a visual cue that there will be more shots, puts me in a position to answer the occassional "How many shots was that, Ref?" question, and makes it easier to catch the first free throw before it hits the ground (which, IMHO, just looks sharp. Not sure how that plays with zebraman's opinion that it looks lazy, what say ye?)

BITS:

Thanks for quoting the appropriate paragraphs in the NFHS Officials Manual. The free throw mechanics in the CCA Men's Manual is the same as the NFHS mechanics. BUT, the free throw mechanics in the CCA Women's Manual calls for the Lead to be next and slightly behind the first player for the first of two and first two of three. This mechanic has been a long time women's mechanic and many officials in the men's college game use it too.

As a long time women's college official I use the mechanic in the women's and men's college games. And I have to admit that I am a baaaad boy when I officiate H.S. games because I use it in those games too for the same reasons that you do; the most important reason being that one is closer to the players in dead ball situations, because we all now that when the ball is dead, baaaad things can happen.

MTD, Sr.