calling out of thier area in div 1

roadking · #1 (**permalink**) Sat Mar 12, 2005, 09:01pm

I've watched about ten div.1 games this weekend, I would say in about 1/2 of the games it seemed to me that the official made alot of calls out of thier area. Is it just me our anyone else see the same thing?

tmp44 · #2 (**permalink**) Sat Mar 12, 2005, 09:12pm

Roadking,

What I've noticed a lot is the lead official going up with 3 point attempts and successful try signals, almost like the NCAAW mechanic. And these haven't been transitional signals either...just regular half court sets, 3 from the corner, lead goes up. College guys..comments?

BktBallRef · #3 (**permalink**) Sat Mar 12, 2005, 09:51pm

I see the T making calls in the paint more than anything.

lrpalmer3 · #4 (**permalink**) Sat Mar 12, 2005, 10:07pm

I don't know if the lead is mirroring or actually watching the shooter.

Also, I noticed the lead bounce the ball the free throw shooter, then step all the way over the corner, one step in bounds. That was odd.

ronny mulkey · #5 (**permalink**) Sat Mar 12, 2005, 10:19pm

The younger guys are very robotic = always looking/calling in their primaries. The older guys are more on ball which works well for TV?

JRutledge · #6 (**permalink**) Sat Mar 12, 2005, 10:24pm

Quote:

Originally posted by ronny mulkey
The younger guys are very robotic = always looking/calling in their primaries. The older guys are more on ball which works well for TV?

Not sure I follow you or agree with your premise. I have seen a lot of off-ball calls when I have seen games in person that are on TV. I agree that younger guys are usually more robotic, but I do not see only calls with the ball.

Peace

WinterWillie · #7 (**permalink**) Sun Mar 13, 2005, 12:28am

Quote:

Originally posted by roadking
I've watched about ten div.1 games this weekend, I would say in about 1/2 of the games it seemed to me that the official made alot of calls out of thier area. Is it just me our anyone else see the same thing?

In the Syracuse/UConn semi final game in the Big East Championships at MSG on Friday, there were three different calls on one play in the paint. I believe the lead called a travel (it was his primary and he was right on the play) but Villanueva shot foul shots. No explanation was given by the commentators.

zebraman · #8 (**permalink**) Sun Mar 13, 2005, 12:58am

Quote:

Originally posted by roadking
I've watched about ten div.1 games this weekend, I would say in about 1/2 of the games it seemed to me that the official made alot of calls out of thier area. Is it just me our anyone else see the same thing?

The only thing I've noticed that differs from what I was how many calls are made from the lead position in the college games I watch. I was taught that in 3-person, 75% of the calls should come from the T or C position. Seems like about 50% of the calls I saw on TV this weekend were made from the L. Also, I see a lot of quick whistles from the lead that are made in the C's area without waiting to see if the C is going to pick it up (some even outside the lane on the C's side).

Z

Snake~eyes · #9 (**permalink**) Sun Mar 13, 2005, 01:02am

Aren't the primaries relly different compared to HS? And don't Women's/Men's differ also?

ronny mulkey · #10 (**permalink**) Sun Mar 13, 2005, 10:05am

Quote:

Originally posted by JRutledge

Quote:

Originally posted by ronny mulkey
The younger guys are very robotic = always looking/calling in their primaries. The older guys are more on ball which works well for TV?

Not sure I follow you or agree with your premise. I have seen a lot of off-ball calls when I have seen games in person that are on TV. I agree that younger guys are usually more robotic, but I do not see only calls with the ball.

Peace

I said more, not only. Also, I did not say that calls were not made off ball or that calls were being missed offball. I know these guys are the best of the best. I just feel like the younger officials tend to stay in their areas more often. And, the more experienced vets have no problem reaching. I'm not being critical or anything just speaking in general terms - just my observations. I have not charted the calls or anything.

Mulk

Almost Always Right · #11 (**permalink**) Mon Mar 14, 2005, 10:32am

Quote:

Originally posted by Snake~eyes
Aren't the primaries relly different compared to HS? And don't Women's/Men's differ also?

H.S. mechanics are the same as Men's NCAA and womens is different.

I was having a discussion with another official while watching the WAC final. At the same time we both said, "That guy just called a travel on the opposite block."
It was kind of weird. Like I say though, I have never missed one from the stands!!
AAR

JRutledge · #12 (**permalink**) Mon Mar 14, 2005, 12:21pm

Quote:

Originally posted by ronny mulkey

I said more, not only. Also, I did not say that calls were not made off ball or that calls were being missed offball. I know these guys are the best of the best. I just feel like the younger officials tend to stay in their areas more often. And, the more experienced vets have no problem reaching. I'm not being critical or anything just speaking in general terms - just my observations. I have not charted the calls or anything.

Mulk

Either way, I still do not follow your observations. I watch a lot of basketball as well and I do not see a lot of calls outside of officialÂ’s area that is not appropriate to the 3 Man system at that level. I am not charting calls either, but there are things that are expected and things that are not. Not sure your level of knowledge with 3 Man at the college ranks or I would have no idea what you are used to working. I just know from my experience most of the calls I see are not only appropriate, but right. These are just observations as well from a mostly HS officials that happens to work college ball from time to time.

Peace

Jeremy Hohn · #13 (**permalink**) Tue Mar 15, 2005, 08:12am

I guess I am one of those guys who is between the "younger" area and a veteran, but I still feel that there is quite a bit of calls from the lead that are quite possibly echoed from the C official on opposite side, but the lead is not even looking at his C. I saw it about 3 or 4 times in the 10 minutes that I watched the NIT opener last night.

Mark Dexter · #14 (**permalink**) Tue Mar 15, 2005, 11:43am

Quote:

Originally posted by lrpalmer3
I don't know if the lead is mirroring or actually watching the shooter.

Also, I noticed the lead bounce the ball the free throw shooter, then step all the way over the corner, one step in bounds. That was odd.

I'm guessing that was Higgins (Big East)? He seemed to be inbounds most of the time he was at lead - it was rather disconcerting to see.

Also, while NCAA men's and NFHS mechanics are technically the same, I'm guessing these guys pre-game some minor changes. The one that seems most obvious to me is the lead taking over a drive to the basket from C. While it is obviously best for the L to rotate over, and the C should have the drive, sometimes the C can be straightlined and not see contact on the torso/arms. It makes perfect sense for the L to come in and grab these.

dblref · #15 (**permalink**) Tue Mar 15, 2005, 12:07pm

Mark Dexter:

I know you don't attend any of the schools involved with the tourney, but did you attend and if so, was it just as a fan?