FED rule changes/clarifications that are needed

[Adam]

Switch the arrow as soon as the ball is handed to the thrower.

[Back In The Saddle]

Assistant coaches should be required to wear shock collars.

Precision time should be required.

These two changes should be made together and the button for the shock collars should be on the precision time belt pack. We may occassionally mix up the buttons, so the timer should be required to start the clock whenever he hears an agonizing yelp!

[Mark Padgett]

Originally posted by Snaqwells
Switch the arrow as soon as the ball is handed to the thrower.

Gotta disagree. Too many variables. If a timeout is granted at that point, when you come back the arrow is pointing in the wrong direction. Also, there are cases where the arrow doesn't get changed, such as a foul during the throwin. Trying to rectify that would be even more confusing.

Keep it the way it is, just make sure the score table knows what the heck it's supposed to do.

[Adam]

I think it's simpler to remove all the variables and say it gets switched when the ball is handed to the thrower. It makes more sense to me, as anything that happens during the throwin happens because of the throwin.
Timeout called during the throwin? Still A's ball and the arrow has already been switched. Foul or violation during the throwin? The arrow has done its job deciding who gets to put the ball in play.

[bob jenkins]

I've used this before, but ...

2-3 is the only Rule.

All the other items are Suggestions.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by bob jenkins
I've used this before, but ...

2-3 is the only Rule.

All the other items are Suggestions.

Like the traffic laws in Boston.

[cmathews]

Originally posted by FrankHtown
I'd like to see time-out requests given back to the players. Hearing a "time-out," looking back to make sure it was the head coach, turning back to the play, and either a) a pass is in the air, or b) it's an interrupted dribble, or c) team b has stolen it, and now you can't grant the time-out, and now coach A is upset...make the players request the timeout...that way the coach can gripe at his players rather than the referee.

why can't you grant it?? It was requested while in player posession, you just confirmed that fact, a slow whistle is usually better than a quick one....I don't have a problem telling the opposing coach that his opponent requested the TO while in possession....I had a game this year, as the ball was getting ready to come in, I was discussing a previous call with a coach, we were about to put the ball in, so I was turning to watch the action, at this time the coach requests time out, I reach for my whistle, miss it, reach again, get it blow it, and it comes out of my mouth, I get it again and blow it, and the ball has now made it to half court....of course the opposing coach says hey he can't have a time out we have the ball...so I explain that he requested it legally....so to summarize, I don't have a problem with it the way it is

[Mark Padgett]

Originally posted by Snaqwells
Foul or violation during the throwin? The arrow has done its job deciding who gets to put the ball in play.

But you could then give the subsequent throwin to the other team, and the arrow would then be pointing the wrong way when you started play. Here's what I mean:

Arrow to A on an AP throwin. While A1 is holding the ball OOB, A2 fouls B1. B is not in the bonus. B gets the ball for a throwin due to the foul. If the arrow had been switched when the ball was first handed to A1, it would now be pointing to team B but it would still be team A's arrow. Try explaining that one at the next AP.

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
There's language in the book telling us when a try ends.

But as I pointed out to Dan in my first post of this thread, 5-2-1 makes it irrelevant whether it's a try or not. Any thrown ball that goes in the basket without touching the floor, a ref or a teammate is a 3.

Logically, the "throw" ends too when it doesn't have a chance to go in.

I have no idea how you come to that conclusion "logically". Some throws never have a chance to go in; e.g., a bounce pass. Does that mean the pass was never thrown? Your conclusion just doesn't follow.

The fact is that 5-2-1 directly contradicts the case play you cite. I think the case play makes more sense, but the way things actually are, we have two diametrically opposed rulings on the same play. It needs to be clarified.

[Adam]

Originally posted by Mark Padgett

But you could then give the subsequent throwin to the other team, and the arrow would then be pointing the wrong way when you started play. Here's what I mean:

Arrow to A on an AP throwin. While A1 is holding the ball OOB, A2 fouls B1. B is not in the bonus. B gets the ball for a throwin due to the foul. If the arrow had been switched when the ball was first handed to A1, it would now be pointing to team B but it would still be team A's arrow. Try explaining that one at the next AP.

But I wouldn't have to. The foul wouldn't have occurred without the throwin granted to A by the arrow, so I have no problem giving B the next AP throwin. It's much simpler this way, because the scorers don't have to worry about whether or not to change the arrow. Always change it.

[tjones1]

Originally posted by Back In The Saddle
Assistant coaches should be required to wear shock collars.

Precision time should be required.

If you are going to require both of them BITS, why not just attach another button on the PTS belt that controls the shock collar! However, if the clock doesn't start and you get mad and keep pushing it, see if the assisant coachs realizes it too!

[Mark Padgett]

Originally posted by Snaqwells

But I wouldn't have to. The foul wouldn't have occurred without the throwin granted to A by the arrow, so I have no problem giving B the next AP throwin. It's much simpler this way, because the scorers don't have to worry about whether or not to change the arrow. Always change it.

But the throwin doesn't end with the foul, so it is still A's ball on the next AP. You'd also have to change the rule that the AP arrow changes on fouls during the throwin.

[Nevadaref]

Originally posted by Mark Padgett
I think we need a clarification on throwins. When A1 releases the ball toward the court but B1 reaches across the boundary and touches the ball before it is over the court, is it supposed to be treated the same as if A1 was still holding the ball OOB, or do the restrictions end when the ball is released toward the court? Notice I specify toward the court.

Mark,
You probably know this, but the NFHS and NCAA rules are different on this. In NFHS the defender is allowed to break the plane once the ball is released on a throw-in pass, so he could legally contact the ball on the out of bounds side of the boundary line. In NCAA play the restriction on the defender lasts until the ball breaks the plane, so there is no touching allowed on the out of bounds side either before or after the thrower releases the pass.

That is the way the rules are currently written.