Artificial noisemakers

FrankHtown · #1 (**permalink**) Mon Mar 07, 2005, 11:42am

Doing a playoff game...small gym..home team supporters have "thunder sticks"...those annoying things you bang together. Visiting coach asks us to ban them during play, especially when their team was shooting free throws, for being "artificial noisemakers." I didn't have a good reason to object, so game management made an announcement. Of course home team supporters booed a little bit, but complied. Do "thunder sticks" fall under "artificial noisemakers" as opposed to, for example, an air horn?

BktBallRef · #2 (**permalink**) Mon Mar 07, 2005, 12:11pm

Of course they are artificial noisemakers. What would you call them?

buckrog64 · #3 (**permalink**) Mon Mar 07, 2005, 12:27pm

If they were genuine noisemakers, would they be okay?

tjones1 · #4 (**permalink**) Mon Mar 07, 2005, 12:44pm

The thunder sticks were big a one point. I only saw those wooden train whistles once....anyone else ever see those used?

Mark Padgett · #5 (**permalink**) Mon Mar 07, 2005, 12:54pm

Thundersticks aren't so bad. I had a game once where every time a visitor went to shoot free throws, a fan would turn on a Barry Manilow tape really loud. Talk about distracting!!!

I had him ejected and put in a closet where he was forced to listen to two hours of ZZTop.

Just kidding.

FrankHtown · #6 (**permalink**) Mon Mar 07, 2005, 01:42pm

BktBallRef,

I was trying to find out if there is a distinction between an air horn, for example, and an item that takes effort to make a sound.

imaref · #7 (**permalink**) Mon Mar 07, 2005, 01:51pm

Quote:

Originally posted by FrankHtown
...Do "thunder sticks" fall under "artificial noisemakers" as opposed to, for example, an air horn?

Here's one I have not seen. 1st round D-1 high school playoff tourney I refereed last week. Visiting student fans brought cafeteria "lunch trays"....raised them in unison and knocked on them....tapped on them and scratched on them producing a series of different sounds. Pretty creative!

Game management observed the students...didn't feel they were being obnoxious....matter of fact, they were quite well behaved and having a great time!

My partner and I talked about it during a deadball situation...and in light of the fact that the home team didn't complain and the game management seemed to have the situation in control....we didn't feel it necessary to create a hub-bub by inforcing the rule technically.

wl

bob jenkins · #8 (**permalink**) Mon Mar 07, 2005, 02:04pm

Quote:

Originally posted by FrankHtown
BktBallRef,

I was trying to find out if there is a distinction between an air horn, for example, and an item that takes effort to make a sound.

No, there isn't.

Lunch trays, cans with coins, cans with rocks, megaphones (except when used properly by cheerleaders), thundersticks, air horns, whistles, whoopee cushions, band instruments, high-tech scoreboards, recorded music, live music, plastic horns, Mattel See-and-Say (tm), ... All are illegal.

BktBallRef · #9 (**permalink**) Mon Mar 07, 2005, 02:17pm

Bob, how could you not list cow bells?

Man, I hate those things.

tjones1 · #10 (**permalink**) Mon Mar 07, 2005, 04:10pm

Quote:

Originally posted by bob jenkins

Quote:

Originally posted by FrankHtown
BktBallRef,

I was trying to find out if there is a distinction between an air horn, for example, and an item that takes effort to make a sound.

No, there isn't.

Lunch trays, cans with coins, cans with rocks, megaphones (except when used properly by cheerleaders), thundersticks, air horns, whistles, whoopee cushions, band instruments, high-tech scoreboards, recorded music, live music, plastic horns, Mattel See-and-Say (tm), ... All are illegal.

Bob,

I don't know, if a school was able to have live music, not the band, perform. I might let them play one song to see if they are any good -- then show them the door!

Redhouse · #11 (**permalink**) Mon Mar 07, 2005, 04:53pm

imaref,

In my opinion even if the home team was ok with the lunch trays you still should not have allowed them to be used. It makes it very difficult when the next crew comes in to do a game and the coach and fans say that the other refs allowed us to use them. I feel that inconsistency like this sometimes gets us in trouble.

What happens at the next game when the home team decides to bring their aluminum lunch boxes and beat on them and then they say, well the last game you let them beat on trays.

imaref · #12 (**permalink**) Mon Mar 07, 2005, 05:05pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Redhouse
imaref,

In my opinion even if the home team was ok with the lunch trays you still should not have allowed them to be used. It makes it very difficult when the next crew comes in to do a game and the coach and fans say that the other refs allowed us to use them. I feel that inconsistency like this sometimes gets us in trouble.

What happens at the next game when the home team decides to bring their aluminum lunch boxes and beat on them and then they say, well the last game you let them beat on trays.

You are absolutely correct, Redhouse! And of course there will always be those technical issues to deal with. Guess my partner and I will be subject to the evaluation process by our state association and "damned" to never be assigned another post season high school tournament ever! Guess we fall into being too liberal. Not to be fully responsible for our actions....but, one could make an argument that game supervisors had the authority to nip this in the bud by confiscating the trays before we even saw them. But....you are right and our apologies for the "domino" effect that we undoubtably will now start. Sorry!

wl

drothamel · #13 (**permalink**) Mon Mar 07, 2005, 05:16pm

I say that in IMAREF's situation, if the teams do not complain, and the game management does not complain, and the officials do not find it to be a problem, then play on! Why create a situation where one does not currently exist? Now, one could certainly argue that the officials are there to enforce the rules, and the home team might not be complaining because they don't know that such things are illegal, by rule. I guess if the officials are judging it to be a problem, which obviously wasn't the case, then something should be done. But again, why create problems if you don't have to? I think that it falls along the same advantage/disadvantage lines that contact between players does.

Mark Padgett · #14 (**permalink**) Mon Mar 07, 2005, 05:18pm

Quote:

Originally posted by BktBallRef
Bob, how could you not list cow bells?

Man, I hate those things.

How much noise can cow balls make? Oh - you said bells. Sorry

Redhouse · #15 (**permalink**) Mon Mar 07, 2005, 05:44pm

That is not a problem imaref. I didn't mean to make it seem as though you just ended the world or something like that. Things like that always happen when we are out there and we have to make the best decision we can at that time.

drothamel,

I don't see this as create something that is not a problem. This is just upkeeping the rules that we are suppose to enforce. I am not going to let someone do something just because I think the other person doesn't know the rule. I am there to uphold the integrity of the game and I am going to make the call even if someone doesn't know the rule. Artificial noisemakers are not allowed inside the gym for a game.

I had this come up in a 2nd round playoff game. The AD came up to us during warmups and said that some of the students had duck calls (I live down south) and asked if they could use them. He said that previous officials in their area have allowed them in the past. That is the problem! We informed him that artificial noisemakers were not allowed and that they would not be able to use them. He said okay thanks, I will let the kids know.