A complaint with AAU

[lrpalmer3]

The race card can always be played. A black fan heckled me by saying that I was pulling for the white team because I was an Uncle Tom. It took every ounce of civility in my blood to keep from ..., but I digress. Black officials, how many times have fans told you that your white partner is/was cheating and that you need to do something about it?

But I agree, preventative measures can be taken when assigning officials to eliminate some of this.

[ChrisSportsFan]

Originally posted by lrpalmer3
The race card can always be played. A black fan heckled me by saying that I was pulling for the white team because I was an Uncle Tom. It took every ounce of civility in my blood to keep from ..., but I digress. Black officials, how many times have fans told you that your white partner is/was cheating and that you need to do something about it?

But I agree, preventative measures can be taken when assigning officials to eliminate some of this.

Fans and Coaches love to try to divide and conquer. The madness of it all!

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by lrpalmer3
The race card can always be played. A black fan heckled me by saying that I was pulling for the white team because I was an Uncle Tom. It took every ounce of civility in my blood to keep from ..., but I digress. Black officials, how many times have fans told you that your white partner is/was cheating and that you need to do something about it?

But I agree, preventative measures can be taken when assigning officials to eliminate some of this.

It comes with the territory around here that I will be accused by the coach of an African-American team for not "helping him out." At least when I am officiating those games where one team is of one color and the other team is another color. I will say that the assignors around here are getting a lot better putting African-American officials on games where the racial makeup is going to be a factor in who plays the games. I would almost rather work games where I am the only Black person in the gym or where there are no white officials or people involved sometimes. At least then it is not something they can make an issue as it relates to the game. I am very proud of who I am and what I am, but it would just takes away some of the fun when a coach does not take into account of what the crew is calling and tries to imply that there is something going on. The problem is that it is very subtle and not always during the game. But after the game if they get a chance they will try to suggest something was going on.

I worked a few weeks ago a big time rivalry between two school that fall in the same school district. Both schools are vastly African-American and both coaches were African-American and not one player was white or any other race for that matter. Only one of my partners was white. It was nice for a change to just blend in and not stand out. I could just be seen as an official and not get the implication that I was from the city (code word for being Black in many circles) or not pulling for one team or another. I was just a ref.

Peace

[Robmoz]

Originally posted by lrpalmer3
The race card can always be played. A black fan heckled me by saying that I was pulling for the white team because I was an Uncle Tom. It took every ounce of civility in my blood to keep from ..., but I digress. Black officials, how many times have fans told you that your white partner is/was cheating and that you need to do something about it?

But I agree, preventative measures can be taken when assigning officials to eliminate some of this.

HUH? Are you saying that RACE should be taken into consideration of who to assign to work a game and that a black ref is more suited to work an all black team and vice versa? If so, do you also buy into the notion that female refs should stick to the girl's game? PLEASE TELL ME YOU ARE NOT SERIOUS.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by Robmoz

HUH? Are you saying that RACE should be taken into consideration of who to assign to work a game and that a black ref is more suited to work an all black team and vice versa? If so, do you also buy into the notion that female refs should stick to the girl's game? PLEASE TELL ME YOU ARE NOT SERIOUS.

Maybe be Irpalmer3 is not saying that, but I am saying that. Race is not different than where you live, what conference you normally work, who has ties to a school and any number of situations that can play apart in assigning. It helps to make the complainers shut up because they have official that are of a certain race on the game, then put them on the game. You can always see what race someone is, you might not know someone lives in a certain town or has a relative that goes to one of the schools. This is no different than assignors that hire guys based on their resume, because they cannot say someone was not experienced enough to work a big game.

Peace

[Robmoz]

Originally posted by JRutledge

Maybe be Irpalmer3 is not saying that, but I am saying that. Race is not different than where you live, what conference you normally work, who has ties to a school and any number of situations that can play apart in assigning. It helps to make the complainers shut up because they have official that are of a certain race on the game, then put them on the game. You can always see what race someone is, you might not know someone lives in a certain town or has a relative that goes to one of the schools. This is no different than assignors that hire guys based on their resume, because they cannot say someone was not experienced enough to work a big game.

Peace

Wow, I cannot believe that you would actually think that race (or gender for that matter) would play a significant role in determining who to assign to any given game. This is not the same as skills, experience, or attitudes.

In fact, I would even question the motives of the "complainers" if I had to address the issue of race or gender in assigning games for their schools or events. I would even question the motives of the assignor who allows such gerrymandering to occur. Heck, I might even question the legality of the whole discriminatory practice if all other things were equal as well.

I work a significant amount of "city" games, I think, because I am a good official. Maybe, since I am a white guy, I have been assigned those games as a token or to show some sort of racial balance? Geez, I really need to re-examine my beliefs, I must have it all wrong.

[canuckrefguy]

Accusing an official of being racist during a game is, in my opinion, grounds for a flagrant T and ejection. Way out of bounds, IMO.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by Robmoz

Wow, I cannot believe that you would actually think that race (or gender for that matter) would play a significant role in determining who to assign to any given game. This is not the same as skills, experience, or attitudes.

Well sorry but that is the world we live in. I know of many women that have been hired to work D1 ball that have not as much experience as their male counterparts trying for the same positions. I know of conferences and even playoff assignments that went out of their way to hire women or African-Americans that were not given opportunities before. If that bothers you, that is something you might have a lot of problems with down the road. I know many coaches that wanted to see more women or African-Americans in their conferences and assignors have done what they can to accommodate. I recently worked with an official that had 30+ years under his belt. Neither skill nor experience was his strong suit.

Originally posted by Robmoz
In fact, I would even question the motives of the "complainers" if I had to address the issue of race or gender in assigning games for their schools or events. I would even question the motives of the assignor who allows such gerrymandering to occur. Heck, I might even question the legality of the whole discriminatory practice if all other things were equal as well.

You really do not want to go there. So you are telling me that all the previous officials that were all white males are more qualified because someone decided to give them an opportunity? We talk all the time about the "old boy network" here and does it ever occur to you that those that have been given an opportunity were not any more qualified than those sitting on the outside? Do not tell me to give other people an opportunity is any more discriminatory than not giving anyone a chance that was not a white male. It is just like trying to tell me that out of all the players that played in the NFL and NCAA Football, you are telling me that only one or two African-Americans are qualified to coach at those levels? If anything, white males are the racial minority in all of basketball. More African-Americans and women play more basketball at the higher levels than any American white male does. But for some reason the numbers do not add up and the officials look little or nothing like the people who play the game.

Originally posted by Robmoz
I work a significant amount of "city" games, I think, because I am a good official. Maybe, since I am a white guy, I have been assigned those games as a token or to show some sort of racial balance? Geez, I really need to re-examine my beliefs, I must have it all wrong.

I do not work a lot of "city" games and I am Black. But for some reason if a city team or mostly Black suburban team plays a mostly white suburban or rural team, I find my way on the game. I do not seek these types of games. I just end up on a lot of them. I know the assignors factor in what my race has a factor. Now one assignor had me work one of his Black schools about 6 times in a 3 year period. It was OK once or twice. It was getting on my nerves after that. Especially when the games were not that good or the match up was not a good one. I would rather go work two suburban white teams than see that team again and again.

Peace

[Boiler14]

How many NCAA basketball games do you see where there are 3 white or 3 black officials?

Very few.

Interesting topic. One none of us enjoy talking about because of the simple reason "We don't care who wins!!"

One of the worst things one of the guys I've worked some with has ever did involved race...and it was a total accident.

Home team had one black player. Visiting team had none. He called a foul on the black player. When he reported he said, "black, number, number,..." Trust me, this was an honest mistake by this guy and he fault awful about...probably still does.

[Robmoz]

I hear ya Rut, I would agree that many people have been afforded and restricted from opportunities because of their race and gender. You make some GREAT points.

I would love see a more level playing field when it comes to opportunities for seeking a diverse pool of officials and not just because of statistical balancing needs or desires.

In regards to why there are not more black refs getting assignments, I can comment only on what I see here in Detroit. That is simply that there is not a lot of interest in the community to become a ref. More often than not I see a greater interest in coaching than to join the ranks of officiating. I do not believe this is due to a lack of opportunity, quite the contrary since the racial mix here is predominately black including the ranks of officials.

Perhaps the system would be best served by using a blind draw method and remove any bias, perceived or otherwise.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by Robmoz


In regards to why there are not more black refs getting assignments, I can comment only on what I see here in Detroit. That is simply that there is not a lot of interest in the community to become a ref. More often than not I see a greater interest in coaching than to join the ranks of officiating. I do not believe this is due to a lack of opportunity, quite the contrary since the racial mix here is predominately black including the ranks of officials.

My question to you is why? Are the officials in that area making an effort to recruit people that do not look like them? One of the associations I belong to is almost entirely Black. They make a lot of efforts to recruit and encourage individuals to become officials in the city. Could they do a better job? Of course they could. But when people see people that are successful that look like them, it allows their mind to imagine they can do the same. I know a lot of people have no idea what it takes to become a ref until they talk to one directly. I was recruited by a friend of mine and he did a lot of things to get me licensed. He even got me into a sport that he did not work. If it was not for him, I would not be here the way I am now. This friend of mine was white, but he did a lot for me that helped me achieve the goals I am currently setting. Mentoring is very important regardless of race or gender. But if you do not make the effort to first let people know what the possibilities are, they might never try. Officiating is a hard thing to get into if you have no one there pushing you or even letting you know what it takes.

Peace

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by Boiler14
How many NCAA basketball games do you see where there are 3 white or 3 black officials?

Very few.

Exactly. The vast majority of the crews in my association are integrated. Rarely do we send an all white, all black or all Native American crew to work a game. Why? Because precetion is reality in the minds of many people.

I was on an all white crew until two years ago. When we worked a state championship game, the table officials told us that we were the first all white crew they had seen in years. So it's done everywhere, if possible.

Originally posted by lrpalmer3
All it takes is one or two calls seen through the subjective eyes of a committed parent to trigger this mistrust. I know we never like to admit that bad refs are out there, but maybe she has had an experience with a racist official.

Or perhaps she passes judgment simply because an official is a different color. Perhaps that's the only reason she needs.

[Robmoz]

Originally posted by JRutledge

My question to you is why? Are the officials in that area making an effort to recruit people that do not look like them? One of the associations I belong to is almost entirely Black. They make a lot of efforts to recruit and encourage individuals to become officials in the city. Could they do a better job? Of course they could. But when people see people that are successful that look like them, it allows their mind to imagine they can do the same. I know a lot of people have no idea what it takes to become a ref until they talk to one directly. I was recruited by a friend of mine and he did a lot of things to get me licensed. He even got me into a sport that he did not work. If it was not for him, I would not be here the way I am now. This friend of mine was white, but he did a lot for me that helped me achieve the goals I am currently setting. Mentoring is very important regardless of race or gender. But if you do not make the effort to first let people know what the possibilities are, they might never try. Officiating is a hard thing to get into if you have no one there pushing you or even letting you know what it takes.

Peace

Well actually, the officials in my area make it a point to recruit people that DO look like them since the association is predominately black for basketball and football, that is the case. Michigan has a great Mentor program sponsored by the the MHSAA and it is highly advertised at the schools through the physical ed programs and the athletic offices.

Many times I have heard the comments of praise from even those that might be slightly interested in becoming an official but are not interested in taking the abuse. I try to break the stereotypes and myths about officiating at every opporunity but still find it VERY difficult to recruit new officials let alone get them to stick around for more than one or two seasons.

Why the lack of interest? Perhaps there is no specific answer but it takes a certain level of passion to be an official; passion that requires a significant amount of time and effort to be invested that many are not willing to put forth past the initial honeymoon period -- regardless of color.

[johnSandlin]

I love it when parents try to start quoting rules to you, and they have absolutely no clue to what they are talking about, or what they are even saying in the process.

I end up walking away, shaking my head, and at times saying "why me lord?", and praying that game managament or site managament is right behind me or on the way.

[TriggerMN]

Originally posted by Robmoz

Wow, I cannot believe that you would actually think that race (or gender for that matter) would play a significant role in determining who to assign to any given game. This is not the same as skills, experience, or attitudes.

In fact, I would even question the motives of the "complainers" if I had to address the issue of race or gender in assigning games for their schools or events. I would even question the motives of the assignor who allows such gerrymandering to occur. Heck, I might even question the legality of the whole discriminatory practice if all other things were equal as well.

I work a significant amount of "city" games, I think, because I am a good official. Maybe, since I am a white guy, I have been assigned those games as a token or to show some sort of racial balance? Geez, I really need to re-examine my beliefs, I must have it all wrong.

I can't think of a state where this DOESN'T happen. It's just part of the process.