Coaches, please read the rule book

[ChrisSportsFan]

Originally posted by jeref
SW- you made my night. I had a Y league game tonite (that I played in) and the other team started complaining about me "moving my pivot foot". I am 3 yrs. new at reffing but, was confident that I knew this rule. Unfortunately, I had to defend myself to 2 officials that understood it differently.

Help me understand...did you do this b/c the coach was complaining about the no call? Why wouldn't you wait for a dead ball??

"I blow the ball dead (stopped a would-be layup for his team, mind you) and inform the coach that the rule gives only the three foot parameter."

Thanks
John

The reason he blew it dead is to proove a point to the coach, correct his rule interp, and to make it hurt.

Actual game quotes on a couple of new rules I learned about this week:

1. "Taller more athletic players, cannot enter the space over a shorter non-athletic players to get a rebound."
2. "A screener cannot move irrelevant if there is contact."

[ibumgardner]

My question for you is why in the world did you blow the ball dead during for the first play that you described? Your post is about rules. Under what rule are you allowed to blow the ball dead to explain a rule to a coach. IMO, things like this are what get us in trouble as referees.
The traveling during an inbounds is a common misinterpretation of the rules that is in part the fault of officials and announcers in basketball games. I have seen officials on tv give a traveling signal when the thrower-in violated the 3' restriction. The announcers (regardless) of what signal the official gives, virtually always says that it is traveling out of bounds. The coaches assume that the announcers know the rules and use that during their games (pee-wee, AAU, or HS).

[ditttoo]

Actually had a BV assistant yelling for a closely guarded call while the other team was bringing up the ball in the backcourt. True, his kid was playing pretty good defense, but I stubbornly kept with my ten count.

Assistant consistently reminded me of my oversight several times during play thereafter. First dead ball opportunity I simply asked if the ball was in the front court or back court - assistant tells me "backcourt, but what does that have to do with anything?" Head coach tells him to "shutup" and smiles at me.

Sometimes it's best to remain silent and leave others to wonder rather than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. Assistant is now "very glad" to see me whenever I have his game. Go figure.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by ditttoo
Head coach tells him to "shutup" and smiles at me.

The head coach did what you shoulda done. Never let assistant coaches question you "several times" about anything. They don't have the right to question you one time. Once you gave that assistant your answer to his initial question, that shoulda been the end of it right there.

[Adam]

Originally posted by ibumgardner
My question for you is why in the world did you blow the ball dead during for the first play that you described? Your post is about rules. Under what rule are you allowed to blow the ball dead to explain a rule to a coach. IMO, things like this are what get us in trouble as referees.
The traveling during an inbounds is a common misinterpretation of the rules that is in part the fault of officials and announcers in basketball games. I have seen officials on tv give a traveling signal when the thrower-in violated the 3' restriction. The announcers (regardless) of what signal the official gives, virtually always says that it is traveling out of bounds. The coaches assume that the announcers know the rules and use that during their games (pee-wee, AAU, or HS).

This was 5th grade boys AAU game, and the coach had essentially earned himself a T by standing up to complain about my no-call and arguing about a rule with me. Frankly, I did him (and the game) a favor by doing it that way. The game went much better from that point.
Whether he believed me or not isn't really relevant either. I essentially told him two things. First, that I'm aware of what's happening and don't need his help. Second, that his opinion of the rules isn't going to have any effect on me.

[jeref]

The reason he blew it dead is to proove a point to the coach, correct his rule interp, and to make it hurt.


Okay, this makes sense at the 5th grade level...not something to practice in a higher level (high school) game. Thanks...

[Adam]

Originally posted by jeref
The reason he blew it dead is to proove a point to the coach, correct his rule interp, and to make it hurt.


Okay, this makes sense at the 5th grade level...not something to practice in a higher level (high school) game. Thanks...

As adamant as he was, it would have likely been a T at the high school level.

[stosh]

I made it as far as the jump ball before the stupidity began on Friday:

Toss goes up, ball tied up by two players of disparate heights. I point at them and tell them its another toss with them in the middle.

Coach: "Why them, it can be anyone I want"
me: "Not according to the rule"
Coach: " You're making that up; its not a rule"
me: "How 'bout a T and then it won't matter?"
Coach: silence

[ibumgardner]

Originally posted by jeref
The reason he blew it dead is to proove a point to the coach, correct his rule interp, and to make it hurt.


Okay, this makes sense at the 5th grade level...not something to practice in a higher level (high school) game. Thanks...

The moment that the whistle was blown is what is referred to as a teachable moment. Yes, the coach learned his lesson. However, there could have been another teachable moment in which you could have explained the ruling to him. If you brought the play up to him during a dead ball or after the game, I'm sure that he would remember what you were talking about.

It doesn't matter that is was a 5th grade AAU game. Don't put the rules aside to explain a rule.

[Adam]

Originally posted by ibumgardner

The moment that the whistle was blown is what is referred to as a teachable moment. Yes, the coach learned his lesson. However, there could have been another teachable moment in which you could have explained the ruling to him. If you brought the play up to him during a dead ball or after the game, I'm sure that he would remember what you were talking about.

It doesn't matter that is was a 5th grade AAU game. Don't put the rules aside to explain a rule.

Would you rather I called the T? I didn't put any rules aside. I had an inadvertent whistle and informed the coach of the rule. Like I said, that approach worked for this situation. If I'd have waited any longer, he'd have been on the court and I'd have had to call the T.

It's like training a puppy. You have to rub their nose in it right away, or they won't understand why they're being punished.

[Edited by Snaqwells on Feb 22nd, 2005 at 12:05 PM]

[ibumgardner]

Originally posted by stosh
I made it as far as the jump ball before the stupidity began on Friday:

Toss goes up, ball tied up by two players of disparate heights. I point at them and tell them its another toss with them in the middle.

Coach: "Why them, it can be anyone I want"
me: "Not according to the rule"
Coach: " You're making that up; its not a rule"
me: "How 'bout a T and then it won't matter?"
Coach: silence

Though your comeback was witty and entertaining, do you think that it was the best thing to say to the coach? I view a comment like this to be stooping down to level of the coach. What do others think? How would other people respond to this comment literally 3 seconds into the game?

[ibumgardner]

Originally posted by Snaqwells

Would you rather I called the T? I didn't put any rules aside. I had an inadvertent whistle and informed the coach of the rule. Like I said, that approach worked for this situation. If I'd have waited any longer, he'd have been on the court and I'd have had to call the T.

In a word, yes. You made the right call by not calling a violation on the throw-in. How the coach responds to this is up to him. If he chooses to get irate and come onto the floor, then he has earned himself a T.
It isn't an inadvertent whistle if it was blown on purpose. So, (IMO) you did put the rules aside, or at least stretched them a whole lot.

[Adam]

Originally posted by ibumgardner

In a word, yes. You made the right call by not calling a violation on the throw-in. How the coach responds to this is up to him. If he chooses to get irate and come onto the floor, then he has earned himself a T.
It isn't an inadvertent whistle if it was blown on purpose. So, (IMO) you did put the rules aside, or at least stretched them a whole lot.

If I can prevent the T, I'm going to do it; especially at this level. Like I said, it worked for me. Feel free to call the T here if you wish.

[ChrisSportsFan]

Frustraiting isn't it? Coaches and Fans can say all kinds of stupid crap and if the Ref makes 1 deserved reply that puts them in their place, they get chastised for not taking the high-road.

I know, I'm going to start documenting these comments so someday I will be able to write a book. I'll call the book something clever like; "Stupid things Coaches and Fans say and do".

[coachgrd]

Originally posted by sfriede
When I played bball in high school our coach made sure we knew the rules. He went so far as inviting in one of the local master officials, so that he could give us a clinic. Our coach new the rules, and the last thing you wanted to do as a player was question an official during a game. I don't ever remember my coach getting a technical foul. So, there are some coaches teaching their players the rules. Habits are hard to break - players in youth leagues are told not to "reach" or go "over the back" for a rebound - which we all know are legal. It takes time to get this method of teaching out of their system.

I've often thought about doing the same thing...inviting an official to one of our practices for a clinic of sorts. I certainly wouldn't expect them to do it for free, so what is a nice way of saying thanks?