Ok, I'll ruin the day.

[bseybs32]

A1 dribbling in backcourt, opposite table, approx. 5' from midcourt line. A1 throws a pass towards table to A2, who is standing, both feet 6" in frontcourt. The pass never crosses the midcourt, A2 reaches across the midcourt line (feet never move), A2 touches the ball and the ball falls to the floor in the backcourt.

I whistle, signal, over and back.

Correct or not correct?

[Adam]

If a player from A was the first to touch (most likely A2 picking up his fumble), then you nailed it. Good call.

[JRutledge]

Backcourt violations are based on where the ball touched and where the person was last touching the floor or currently touching the floor. A2 is touching the FC and the ball goes in the BC. Now it is not a violation until someone from A touches the ball after the ball is in the BC. That might be the only part that is not correct if you blew your whistle at that point.

Peace

[ref18]

I've got nothing.

By the sounds of it, A2 never controlled the ball, and in order to call a backcourt violation the team must have front court control.

So not only do I have nothing, but I think that A2 could grab the ball either while standing in the frontcourt or moving into the backcourt.

Edit: This is wrong, team control by A has already been established so the ball gains front court status when touched by A2, so it would only be a backcourt violation if a member of team A touches the ball while it is still in the backcourt. So technically I've still got no violation. Just looking back at my post my reasoning was completely off.

[Edited by ref18 on Feb 14th, 2005 at 01:41 PM]

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by ref18
I've got nothing.

By the sounds of it, A2 never controlled the ball, and in order to call a backcourt violation the team must have front court control.

So not only do I have nothing, but I think that A2 could grab the ball either while standing in the frontcourt or moving into the backcourt.

There does not have to be player control, just team control. This would be a BC violation if any player from A is the first to touch the ball. The ball is considered in the FC as soon as someone is considered in the FC or the ball touches the FC completely. This has to be a BC violation.

Peace

[TwoDot]

I've got to have a no call. I do not see that the ball ever attained frontcourt status. Three points of the two feet and ball need to be established in the frontcourt.

This is not any different than when a player is dribbling and feet are in FC and ball is bouncing in backcourt. It may look ugly but not illegal.

[ref18]

Originally posted by TwoDot
I've got to have a no call. I do not see that the ball ever attained frontcourt status. Three points of the two feet and ball need to be established in the frontcourt.

This is not any different than when a player is dribbling and feet are in FC and ball is bouncing in backcourt. It may look ugly but not illegal.

That only applies to when the ball carrier is dribbling from BC to FC. If it's a pass to another player already in the FC, then just touching the ball is enough to give it FC status.

[bseybs32]

My reasoning for this being a violaion is along the same lines as if A2 jumped from the FC, caught the ball, as it was still in the BC, and landing in the BC. this situation is a violation as soon as A2 touches the ball. No different than my original post.

This is why I had a violation.

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by ref18
Edit: This is wrong, team control by A has already been established so the ball gains front court status when touched by A2, so it would only be a backcourt violation if a member of team A touches the ball while it is still in the backcourt.

There's no requirement to touch the ball while it's still in the BC. Only that A be the first to touch the ball after it went to the BC.

[ref18]

Originally posted by bseybs32
My reasoning for this being a violaion is along the same lines as if A2 jumped from the FC, caught the ball, as it was still in the BC, and landing in the BC. this situation is a violation as soon as A2 touches the ball. No different than my original post.

This is why I had a violation.

But it isn't a violation until A2 lands in the backcourt, which means, that A2 has to be touching the ball and in the backcourt in order for a violation to be called. If while in the air, A2 drops the ball, and it lands in the BC without A2 touching it, then you've got nothing. It won't be a violation until any team A player touches the ball.

Edit: after reading Bob's post I think I should clarify that last statement:

It won't be a violation unless a team A player is the first to touch the ball while it is still in the BC.



Further edit: I can clarify this some more

It won't be a violation unless a team A player is the first to touch the bal while it still has BC status

I don't think I can clarify it anymore

[Edited by ref18 on Feb 14th, 2005 at 02:11 PM]

[blindzebra]

Originally posted by ref18

But it isn't a violation until A2 lands in the backcourt, which means, that A2 has to be touching the ball and in the backcourt in order for a violation to be called. If while in the air, A2 drops the ball, and it lands in the BC without A2 touching it, then you've got nothing. It won't be a violation until any team A player touches the ball.

What Bob is saying is the ball does not need to still be in the BC when A touches it again.

A1 is trapped in the corner while in the frontcourt, A1 throws a bounce pass to A2 and the ball hits in the BC and goes to A2 in the FC. That is a violation.

[Adam]

Originally posted by bseybs32
My reasoning for this being a violaion is along the same lines as if A2 jumped from the FC, caught the ball, as it was still in the BC, and landing in the BC. this situation is a violation as soon as A2 touches the ball. No different than my original post.

This is why I had a violation.

This is a violation when A2 lands, not when he touches the ball.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by bseybs32
My reasoning for this being a violaion is along the same lines as if A2 jumped from the FC, caught the ball, as it was still in the BC, and landing in the BC. this situation is a violation as soon as A2 touches the ball. No different than my original post.

This is why I had a violation.

Yes, it is different.

Your original play is not a violation until Team A touches the ball after it touches the BC.

In the play where A2 jumps from the FC, catches the ball and lands in the BC,it's a violation when he lands, not before.

[blindzebra]

Originally posted by Snaqwells

This is a violation when A2 lands, not when he touches the ball.

It is a violation if you flip it.

Ball comes from FC and player jumps from BC and catches the ball while in the air.

[JRutledge]

9.9.1 Situation C covers this almost identically.

This would be a BC violation if A touches the ball first in the BC.

Peace