Three man crews

[sharkref]

Article from Tulsa, Ok.


Blow whistle on refs
: By LYNN JACOBSEN World Sports Writer
: 2/22/01

: The 3-man officiating crews in 5A-6A haven't brought the results many expected.
: This year's experiment with the 3- man officiating crews in Classes 5A and 6A hasn't produced the results many expected.
: Instead of smoother, well-officiated games, contests have been marred with missed calls and a somewhat apathetic attitude among some officials.

: Some of that was to be expected. After all, the 3-man crew is new to officials as well as to the teams. As officials work through a feeling-out phase of what to call or not to call, coaches, players and fans are second-guessing the officials.

: "I'm not sure they were ready for it as far as court coverage and mechanics of a 3-man crew," said one 6A coach. "Too many times it seems as though they don't know who is going to make calls. That's to be expected since it's new to them also."

: This isn't to say that high school officiating is totally bad. But when an official calls a technical for a "mean look," perhaps it is time to take a closer look at the situation.

: The problem seems two-fold.

: First, the 3-man crews are not assigned to games on a regular basis which makes continuity a problem.

: Second, officials must also adapt to how coaches wish games to be called. For example, one coach may prefer hand checks to be whistled while the opposing coach may wish to let the players play.

: One former coach offered a different look at the problem.

: "Watch any game and what you see is that most officials cannot run backwards," he said. "They can't even run sideways. They race down the court then turn around. They're missing any action going on behind them.

: "Three-man crews have developed laziness. It's the worst thing that ever happened to basketball. It's created 33-1/3 percent incompetence. It's time that athletic directors and administrators regain control of officials."

: Still another coach offered these thoughts.

: "It seems with the 3-man crew you get one good official, one average and one who is just learning. But it always seems that it is the guy just learning that makes 90 percent of the calls."

: Another problem, according to Danny Rennels of the Oklahoma Secondary School Activities Association, there is a shortage of officials.

: "The thought was that some of the older guys would stay in to give time to break in younger guys," Rennels said. "But that hasn't been the case."


My comments:
I cannot believe three man crews are just catching on in states like Oklahoma.Especially with 5A and 6A schools. As athletic as the kids are today I think three man is a must! Here in West Virginia we have called three man for boys Varsity for at least five years, wouldn't do it any other way! A lot of girls games too. Long season, easier on the legs and much better court coverage. Any comments?

[WestCoastRef]

Can you please post the address of the columnist and the coaches so we can educate them that Referees are not supposed to run backwards and coaches don't get a vote on what calls will be called and not called, just to name a few. Thanks

[BigDave]

Originally posted by sharkref
As athletic as the kids are today I think three man is a must!

I'm not so sure that 3-man is "a must". Two solid, hustling officials can handle a top-level HS boys game. The CBA does (did) it. The tendency when working 3-man mechanics is to relax too much. This leads to eventual laziness, therefore, a poorly officiated game. The key is hustle. If you are working 2-man or 3-man, getting up and down the floor is essential.

[bsilliman]

One point with which I must agree with the writer: too many officials do run down the court with their back turned to the action.
This may come from the idea that "you should never get beat in 3-person."
Always run looking back over your shoulder and never try to beat the players running down the floor. Very few officials are that 'fleet of foot'. If you are beat get to the best position possible to see the initial play and then move to the 'regular' position.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by BigDave

I'm not so sure that 3-man is "a must". Two solid, hustling officials can handle a top-level HS boys game. The CBA does (did) it. The tendency when working 3-man mechanics is to relax too much. This leads to eventual laziness, therefore, a poorly officiated game. The key is hustle. If you are working 2-man or 3-man, getting up and down the floor is essential.

....you want the calls to be right more often. If you do the bigger kids and the bigger schools, the responsibility for the ball changes and switches a lot during a 2 man game. In 3, you have another set of eyes looking off ball and at least helping out in the lane and the back screens. And even better, you see the whole play, instead of looking thru players and guessing who did what first. At least at the boys level, maybe not so much the girls, but I feel even in their case, they need the other official too. You can hustle all day in two, but you might not see an entire play, because the off ball stuff is in your primary area, where the ball is.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by BigDave
The tendency when working 3-man mechanics is to relax too much. This leads to eventual laziness, therefore, a poorly officiated game.

I'm sorry Dave but the two statements that you made above are utter and complete bullshit. Your comments are almost as short-sided as the column itself. Perhaps the level of ball that you're working doesn't require a 3 man crew but I can assure that's not the case everywhere. With the speed, quickness and level of play that I saw in 50+ varsity games this season, I would hate to know that I had to step on the floor with only one partner.

I'm glad I don't live in a state where they're still resisting change to the 3 man system.

[sharkref]

As you can tell by my original post, no one will ever change my mind of the fact that three man crews are superior. Some of the schools in Western West Virgina and Southeastern Ohio want officials to do girls varsity two man. We always call and ask if we can bring a third even if we get less money. Overall, I don't even notice a greater number of fouls called in the game with a three man. Just a lot less guessing on fouls and OB. Especially when two, 240 pounders pass right in front of you and you have to make a call just on the other side of them. I didn't mean to imply in my original post that two man could not be done, just that I always prefer three man.

Note: Anytime I mention three man, I actually mean
three man/woman. Don't want to leave anyone out.

[BigDave]

Originally posted by BktBallRef

I'm glad I don't live in a state where they're still resisting change to the 3 man system.

Trust me, it's not us officials resisting the move to 3-man, it's the schools and their cashflow that is resisting.

I much prefer to work 3-man. I have a lot of experience at some pretty high levels with it. My point was, it is not "a must" for HS basketball. Is it better? Sure it is. But not required in order to play the game.

As far as the "bullshit" comment, I'll chalk that up to your emotions.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by BigDave
As far as the "bullshit" comment, I'll chalk that up to your emotions.

Chalk it up to what ever you like, but I know BS when I smell it or read it.

Perhaps the NBA and NCAA should go back to 2 man since 3 man mechanics make you lazy and cause so many poorly officiated games.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by BigDave

Trust me, it's not us officials resisting the move to 3-man, it's the schools and their cashflow that is resisting.

I much prefer to work 3-man. I have a lot of experience at some pretty high levels with it. My point was, it is not "a must" for HS basketball. Is it better? Sure it is. But not required in order to play the game.

As far as the "bullshit" comment, I'll chalk that up to your emotions.

I have to agree with TH on this one. 3 Person mechanics does not make officials lazy at all. There might be individuals that are lazy, but that says more about them than anything. But in 3 man, you have to work harder in many ways and trust your partners more than in 2 person. I did several 2 person varsity boys games this year, more than I was used to, and I found myself a step behind or not seeing everything. Instead in 3 person, I felt much more confident about what I called and when a player got called for a foul and complained that the other player did this first, then I can confidently respond to the player and the coach and descibe what I saw. Bob and I did a varsity game together, and we called several off ball fouls. Almost every call I made, I know I saw the back end of what had transpired. It might have been the correct call, but something happen first many times. And I found myself looking through players and looking around players, instead of seeing the entire play as it developed.

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by sharkref
Note: Anytime I mention three man, I actually mean
three man/woman. Don't want to leave anyone out.

There is a guy here in our association who calls it two-whistle or three-whistle mechanics. It's harder to type, but it covers the bases without any problems. It's sort of like "flight attendant" or "fire fighter" It takes a little getting used to, but after a short adjustment, it's a big improvement.

[Brian Watson]

If an official is lazy working three man, why would anyone think they would have more huslte in two man? No pun, but you can't change someone's stripes, thye will be lazy no matter what system they are in.

I think it a conspiracy by the schools to save 500-600 dollars. When you boil it down, the cost excuse is pretty weak.

[Bart Tyson]

i have to agree with Brian on this one. For every official you point out working 3-person, and lazy, i can show you the same number of officials working 2-person whom are lazy. I do believe most officials are not lazy. i think most officials whom appear to be lazy don't go to camps to learn what it is they are doing incorrect. This gives the appearance of being lazy when the fact is they have never been taught the proper mechanics.

[mcdanrd]

I am an official in Oklahoma. I have not called any 5A or 6A varsity ball except preseason (of course that's only two-man). I have had the opportunity to watch several 6A varsity games during the course of the season. In my opinion the games were well officiated by the 3-man crews and certainly better officiated than they were last year with just the two-man crews. Three-man is new to the officials doing high school ball in this state. There is certainly going to be a learning curve for those officials that are use to doing two-man and for those that are doing two-man on Monday, Thursday, and Saturday for Junior High thru High School J.V. and three-man on Tuesday and Friday for High School varsity. The coaches that are whining about three-man would whine if there was an official for every player on the court.