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  #16 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 23, 2005, 03:05pm
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Originally posted by JRutledge
[/B]
And to say that someone should only work one state final is also IMO not very practical. Then you are going to have a bunch of people that either are not ready, or never were truly qualified in the first place to work games.

[/B][/QUOTE]If there was a rule that restricted an official to working one state final in Illinois for, say, every ten years, how would that not be practical? You're talking about 6 officials per year(boys and girls finals) x ten years = 60 0fficials. I haveta believe that Illinois has got way more than 60 officials who are already eminently qualified to work a high school final.
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Old Wed Feb 23, 2005, 03:09pm
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in our state, kentucky, we have two state tourney's for the boys and 2 for the girls.. the first is an all "a" school tourney, which is for the smaller schools and it is said that the small schools vote on who they want to ref no matter how many times they have been there, so it is mainly a popularity contest or a who you know thing with this tourney....
as for our major sweet 16 tourney...we have 16 regions and all the regions have there top officials from the ratings from coaches/assignors combined....usually the #1 officials get to go to the state tourney no matter how many times they have been, no limitations...also there are some "at large" bids that are covered by the kentucky assignor of officials, so he can get the people that he wants that maybe didn't finish in the top of their particular regions... i agree that there should be some sort of regulations and that would be great for all officials over the state that are always close to the top but never get there....not much difference in #1-#5 in most regions!!!
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Old Wed Feb 23, 2005, 03:44pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Quote:
Originally posted by JRutledge
And to say that someone should only work one state final is also IMO not very practical. Then you are going to have a bunch of people that either are not ready, or never were truly qualified in the first place to work games.

[/B]
If there was a rule that restricted an official to working one state final in Illinois for, say, every ten years, how would that not be practical? You're talking about 6 officials per year(boys and girls finals) x ten years = 60 0fficials. I haveta believe that Illinois has got way more than 60 officials who are already eminently qualified to work a high school final. [/B][/QUOTE]

It's actually more than that -- in Illinois, for example, they play more than one round at state and there's class A and AA. But even so, there are at least 20-30 qualified officials.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 23, 2005, 04:38pm
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser
[QUOTE]Originally posted by JRutledge
Quote:
Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser


Best? Way too subjective, IMO.

States should have a pool of people who they would feel confident in sending to the state tournament and spread the wealth.

Who said you would put officials with no experience in games of that magnitude? You'd still have to "work your way up the ladder" before going to state. You'd still have to work regionals, sectionals, substates, and all those preliminary rounds that states have.

I think I counted 622 officials in my state that were "playoff eligible." 48 officials here work the state tournament every season. No reason that you couldn't pick out a different batch of 48 every season.

But the problem is this -- it takes manpower and effort to identify those people who would do well in the state tournament and it's much easier to just send somebody again, and again, and again. And people like the OP may be good enough to work, but don't.

I'm not complaining personally -- I've never lived in a state long enough to work my way into such a position and I'm thrilled with my playoff schedule.


I'm with you Rich! We all do have to "work our way up"...but for some of us, it's a case of up and down....up and down. Over the 30+ years of working here in Wisconsin, many of my generation have been lucky to get to the "dance" once....some have been there twice. It's somewhat an "unwritten" rule that two years in a row at STATE....you sit the next year and are eligible again the following, provided you continue to meet the tournament selection criteria. Point being, we can go through all the hoops... yet still never get that chance of working a state tourney due to "strictly numbers". You know the routine. Must have a minimum of 16 varsity assignments, score 90+ on NFHS Test 1 & 2, have the appropriate level classification (L5/Master), 5 or 6 point average in Coach's evaluation. Once you meet these, then you progress through the Regionals...Sectionals....and "hopefully" a State invitation. However, many of us reach the Sectional finals...year after year....don't get a state bid and, like the 'ol Cub fan that I am....I wait till next year! (Truth be told...we don't get any younger and the reality is that at some point it's time to move over and applaud our younger colleagues supporting their dreams of getting the "big gig"). Hey....with all the rumblings about 3-whistle coming to Wisconsin....I might be able to still have a chance among you "kids"...I still believe EXPERIENCE comes in handy in the crunch!

Long disertation....but I am thrilled, like you Rich, at the assignments I continue to receive. For me, it's an afformation and recognition of the hardwork my partners and I continue to do.

Congratulations Rich...and all of the other hardworking officials who have "earned" their way into the playoff season!


wl

[Edited by imaref on Feb 23rd, 2005 at 04:41 PM]
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 23, 2005, 04:43pm
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In Iowa, I believe all playoff assignments are made totally on coaches ratings and recommendations. Local associations don't have a thing to say about it, which I personally think is a bad thing. A lot of guys in my area don't even belong to an association. You can get all of your games yourself dealing with league commissioners or directly with the AD in smaller schools. I think if you get selected to go to state one year, you are automatically invited back the next year unless you really screw up. After that, I think you have to sit out a year or two before you can return, but I am not positive about that. I am talking strictly about the state tournaments, one for girls and one for boys, 4 classes each. I think you can work sub state and district games for as many years in a row as you like as long as you can get them.
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 23, 2005, 06:18pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
If there was a rule that restricted an official to working one state final in Illinois for, say, every ten years, how would that not be practical? You're talking about 6 officials per year(boys and girls finals) x ten years = 60 0fficials. I haveta believe that Illinois has got way more than 60 officials who are already eminently qualified to work a high school final.
I did not say you could not find officials. I think you would not have always "quality" officials working deep in the playoffs. In our state finals there are 12 officials that work the state finals for each Class. I just think you would lose officials to college and other levels if you just gave them one change.

Look, this is my opinion. It does not mean it would not work. I just think officials should be rewarded for doing a good job at the HS level. We have a basic rule of 3 and out. It is not put in stone and there was an official that worked his fourth (conflicts with a school limited his 3rd trip).

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