Not by the book

[Nevadaref]

This is for all of those here who so enjoyed my 0 or 00 thread. I did read that entire thing a couple of days later, and do value many of the opinions expressed there, as this story will demonstrate.

Last Friday I was the R for a girls game in which the home team wore illegal jerseys. Every single one of them had the number on the front of the jersey positioned in the upper right of the chest.

This was a league game and determined 3rd and 4th place.

Yeah, I knew that by rule that the numbers were required to be centered vertically and horizontally (3-4-2 for those who care.), but I just didn't have the heart to penalize for this.
Oh, what is the proper penalty? It's a player technical foul on EACH girl who participates. That would mean FIVE Ts and TEN FTs to start the game, and then whacking EVERY substitute the first time she enters. Can you imagine that?

It may justly be asked why I chose to penalize the wearing of double-zero and not the wearing of these illegal shirts. I can only say that the sheer number of Ts made the difference. I would more than likely have been suspended for the rest of the season had I called it by the book and given out about 10 Ts that night.

[LarryS]

Originally posted by Nevadaref
I would more than likely have been suspended for the rest of the season had I called it by the book and given out about 10 Ts that night.

Now...a hard-a$$ would say you only passed on the T's so you wouldn't get suspended

Think I would have passed as well...but reminded the coach that he should address the issue.

Would have been really sad if the other coach would have insisted you enforce that rule. Can't imagine starting the game with 10 FTs.

[Ref Daddy]

Ugg. Had a G-7 game last week where a player appeared and entered book with number 89.

Try signalling that number to the table easily.

Spoke to the coach. Illegal number. She said she and school admin clearly knew and understood but budget, funds, jersey availability, yada, yada, yada.

Kid had worn it all year. I verified that in the scorebook, reviewed at least 6 games she had played in with 89 pasted on her jersey - no issue from my predicessors.

Spoke to opposing coach - she did not object to jersey number. I passed. She played.

[theboys]

But, did she take off her shoulder pads and helmet before entering the game?

[rwest]

Originally posted by Nevadaref
This is for all of those here who so enjoyed my 0 or 00 thread. I did read that entire thing a couple of days later, and do value many of the opinions expressed there, as this story will demonstrate.

Last Friday I was the R for a girls game in which the home team wore illegal jerseys. Every single one of them had the number on the front of the jersey positioned in the upper right of the chest.

This was a league game and determined 3rd and 4th place.

Yeah, I knew that by rule that the numbers were required to be centered vertically and horizontally (3-4-2 for those who care.), but I just didn't have the heart to penalize for this.
Oh, what is the proper penalty? It's a player technical foul on EACH girl who participates. That would mean FIVE Ts and TEN FTs to start the game, and then whacking EVERY substitute the first time she enters. Can you imagine that?

It may justly be asked why I chose to penalize the wearing of double-zero and not the wearing of these illegal shirts. I can only say that the sheer number of Ts made the difference. I would more than likely have been suspended for the rest of the season had I called it by the book and given out about 10 Ts that night.

First of all let me say, I too would not have issued the T's. However, what you are doing is deciding which rules to strictly enforce. I'm not criticizing you. I imagine that we all do it. I know I do. You were using common sense. No advantage was gained. However, does that not weaken ones argument in other debates when they say "That's not by the book."? Nobody calls everything by the book. So what criteria do we use to determine when we are going to deviate from strictly enforcing the rules?

Advantage/Disadvantage? Common Sense?

What discretion do we have as officials? And when have we gone too far?





[Edited by rwest on Feb 9th, 2005 at 09:46 AM]

[BktBallRef]

In my area, we're told to contact the assignor, who will address the issue with the school

I've never had it happen.

[TriggerMN]

Play the game, contact the state, let them decide whether or not to have the game forfeited.

I don't have my rulebook with me, but I have specifically asked this question before, and a number of my colleagues and I have come up with the correct rulebook information.

The 5 starters EACH receive a technical foul (count toward team bonus), but only 2 TOTAL free throws will be shot for these technicals, not 2 for each technical.

Now, each time a new sub enters the game, that sub is given a technical foul, and 2 shots and the ball for the other team.

Each player may receive only one technical foul for the jersey infraction, so once they've received a T, there is no penalty for that player to substitute in and out.

If the team never substitutes for the entire game, i.e. all five starters play the whole game, no more technicals would be given.

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by BktBallRef
In my area, we're told to contact the assignor, who will address the issue with the school

I've never had it happen.

Yea, by this time in the season, around here, it would have already been taken care of. If I hadn't heard about the "arrangements", I'd be calling my assignor on his emergency cell phone before I gave out any T's.

[rwest]

Originally posted by TriggerMN
I don't have my rulebook with me, but I have specifically asked this question before, and a number of my colleagues and I have come up with the correct rulebook information.

The 5 starters EACH receive a technical foul (count toward team bonus), but only 2 TOTAL free throws will be shot for these technicals, not 2 for each technical.

I, too, don't have my rule book with me, but I remember from a past conversation that this would be 10 FTs. 1 technical for each player. I seem to recall that the actual wording in the rule book indicates that each player would be penalized. Can anyone post the actual rule?

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by TriggerMN
Play the game, contact the state, let them decide whether or not to have the game forfeited.

Agree.

I don't have my rulebook with me, but I have specifically asked this question before, and a number of my colleagues and I have come up with the correct rulebook information.

The 5 starters EACH receive a technical foul (count toward team bonus), but only 2 TOTAL free throws will be shot for these technicals, not 2 for each technical

Pretty sure I don't agree that this is the rulebook answer. 10-3-2 says a player shall not wear an illegal number. And the penalty for all articles is two FTs plus the ball. Specifically for Article 2, it says, "Each violation is penalized one time if discovered prior to ball becoming live for each designated starter and each substitute who enters". Each violation is penalized for each starter. And what was the penalty again? Two FTs and the ball. Sure sounds like each starter and each sub is penalized by 2 FTs and the ball.

Am I missing something?

[David B]

Originally posted by ChuckElias

Agree.

Pretty sure I don't agree that this is the rulebook answer. 10-3-2 says a player shall not wear an illegal number. And the penalty for all articles is two FTs plus the ball. Specifically for Article 2, it says, "Each violation is penalized one time if discovered prior to ball becoming live for each designated starter and each substitute who enters". Each violation is penalized for each starter. And what was the penalty again? Two FTs and the ball. Sure sounds like each starter and each sub is penalized by 2 FTs and the ball.

Am I missing something?

I'm glad in our area, we simply let our assignor know and he notifies the state and they can handle it or not.

That way we don't have to worry about being uniform police etc., Just officiate and get out.

Especially if the whole team has incorrect jerseys, there's probably a reason for it.

Thanks
David

[JugglingReferee]

Originally posted by theboys
But, did she take off her shoulder pads and helmet before entering the game?

...And did she declare herself as eligible?

[TriggerMN]

It looks like I was mixing this up with the rule gone over quite a bit in the case book 3.2.2 situations, where one T is given for all infractions. Thumbs down to me for getting it wrong.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally posted by ChuckElias
And what was the penalty again? Two FTs and the ball. Sure sounds like each starter and each sub is penalized by 2 FTs and the ball.

And do they get the ball five times?

[ChuckElias]

Strange but true:

This morning I got a phone call from a local HS AD who said that an official who was watching one of his team's games informed him that his team's jerseys were all illegal. They have a tail that trails from the team name and the number is below the tail. This is not legal, according to 3-4-10.

He said they've used these uniforms for four years and nobody has ever noticed, or at least they haven't mentioned it to him.

I told him that he should contact the state office ASAP as playoffs start in a couple weeks, and if some hotshot ref wants to make a name for himself by handing out T's, he would be completely correct by rule.

Hopefully, he can get a waiver from the state office until they can replace the uniforms next year.