BLARGE

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by ronny mulkey


This one more than you had the last time we had this discussion. Which brings me to another point: YOU (Rut) may understand mechanics, YOU (Rut) may always be off ball, YOU (Rut) may always trust your partner, YOU (Rut) may always know your primary BUT your partner(s) might not. And, that is all it takes to have a blarge.

Ron,

This must be something that happens to you a lot.

I am sorry Ronny; I do not work with a lot of officials that are totally unaware of coverage and primary areas. This state has been working 3 Person for playoff games for 8 years now. It is also require attending clinics to keep our licenses and to get playoff games. It is become more and more rare that officials are not very familiar with 3 person and the procedures. If I do run into an official that is not as skilled in 3 person, usually the blarge is not a major concern.

Peace

[ronny mulkey]

Rut,

I am speaking on behalf of our group's experiences mostly. I have had these in my games but none this year. Can't remember one last year. That doesn't mean that I have forgotten how EASY it was to do or that it won't happen tomorrow. I am involved with training in our group and I see this happening more than it should. So, it makes me curious when I hear about a "magic formula" for prevention. People toss around ideas like primaries, trust your partner, mechanics, etc., but I am asking for specifics. I assure you that these specifics that I have requested are for officials improvement, not for a 100 thread Rut/Mulk argument.

You seem to work a lot of games which probably means a lot of different partners. That by itself is a recipe for officials being on different pages. Also, we seem to have more blarges with "stronger/college type" officials than we do with high school level officials. I see this happening on TV and i have to assume that those people are very familiar with mechanics.

Mulk

[Junker]

A lot of big time college officials that you see on TV do know their mechanics, they just choose not to use all of them. I'm also wondering if ego isn't another reason you see the blarge called a little more at the college level? By the way, how come we have to talk about the blarge every year, bringing back horrible memories of Iowa State-Michigan State 5 years ago? I may not sleep tonight.

[JRutledge]

Ron,

We have a training program that everyone gets the same type of information. I do not run into officials that have a totally different idea on what their responsibility is or what it is not. You are the only one I know that seems to have some issue with why this happens or is constantly afraid of it happening.

Ron, I also watch a lot of basketball on TV and I do not see this happening a lot. I very rarely see officials calling in other officials areas. I really do not know how much more specific I can get. I usually talk about two items in my pregame. I talk about the Center taking the drive all the way to the basket. Then I talk about if we have a double whistle; give the official the call whose primary it is in. No one I work with ever seems to disagree or have another point. Then for some strange reason, I do not have these happening in my games. I work with a lot of partners from State Final officials, to a guy that moved from another state and is in the military with little experience. For some strange reason nothing strange happen.

Peace

[ronny mulkey]

Rut,

Thanks. Was just looking for a little more info that I could share with others. I will mention your C theory and yielding to the primary.

Mulk

[Indy_Ref]

Originally posted by ronny mulkey
Rut,

..."magic formula" for prevention...

Mulk,

There is NO magic formula for prevention. Perhaps you should re-read Tomegun's posts. His thoughts and mechanics for this situation are, IMHO, excellent! In fact, I am going to try and employ them into my thought process from now on. I have not had a BLARGE in 7 years of officiating high school & college ball...and I don't want to have one in the next 7 years either!!

I had this situation in a college game this year right before the halftime horn. Team A in transition...I was L...partner (a D-I official) was C...A1 brings ball down the middle of the paint and creams the defender. I have a whistle and start to come out to give the PC...C comes in from the old hashmark area. We BOTH recognized that there were double-whistles on the play. C comes in and tells me to take it...I go PC. Yes, it was a hair late...but we got the call right. Thank goodness we BOTH had the patience to recognize the situation and hold our prelims. We inbounded & the first half ended. Going off the court I was happy that we held our pre-lims...and was wondering why he thought he had a better look from 30 feet away compared to the 10 feet between me & the play...and I had been setup on the endline waiting for it!

...but that's another thread!

[ronny mulkey]

Indy,

I don't think there is a magical formula, either, but something that you are doing is keeping you from having blarges. That secret is what I would like to share with our high school group. By the way, we have some guys doing D1, as well.

Great job on your play! However your play illustrates my point exactly. You were wondering why he thought that he had a better look and he was wondering why you did not let the C take it all the way to the basket. That is why I am asking people like yourself that never have blarges to be specific in the "mechanics" that they use. But even after you agree on a specific mechanic, I still think that sometimes the C will think the ball clearly came from his side and the L will think that the ball came clearly down the middle. We have seen that on tape many times. And, that does not even begin to factor in secondary defenders. And, what about plays that begin in the trail's area?

Another common thing that I see espoused is that this does not happen to good officials. Matter of fact, it happens to our stronger officials. I keep pointing out that it occurs to those guys that we watch on TV and I have to think that they are better than most of the people on this board.

Any event, it was your anticipation of a second whistle and your steadfast refusal to give a prelim that saved you, not your recognition of primaries, diligent offball coverage, distrust of your partner(s), etc. Right????

Read Tomegun's response and have requested more specifics from him as well. Hope he responds.

Mulk

[tomegun]

What do you want me to tell you specifically? I think it is an understanding, without ego which is very important, of seeing the whole play. Also, plays that are clearly in someone's primary should not have a double whistle. A delayed whistle if the primary doesn't have one and there really needs to be a whistle. If I know it is a possible area for a double whistle I will have a hammer and find my partner immediately.

I have also had someone pregame the C holding the prelim in double coverage areas. Whatever you do the crew works the best when everyone is comfortable. My definition of comfortable in officiating includes trust and knowing as best I can what the other official is going to do. In possible dual areas it will not hurt to look at your partner so you know where they are looking. Tell me if you want more specifics. I have/get to go home now.

[Indy_Ref]

Experience, recognition, & understanding are the keys. Tomegun makes great statements again about C holding on your prelims, etc. When I'm R, I say we need a STRONG C to be a good crew...but C also needs to understand that we expect him to look through the players and get the little things we miss...and this might cause double-whistles. So, lay off if it's out of your primary. That being said, we don't want C looking too far out of his primary!

In my situation from above, it was a 2 players in transition coming down the tableside-middle of the court. I had the play the WHOLE way. I can only assume the C had a whistle just to "back me up" if I didn't have one! At halftime, he said he shouldn't have come in so hard...and he understood that his coming in hard made us look bad since that prevented me from really selling the PC and that it was my call the whole way.

[ronny mulkey]

Indy and Tomegun,

Thanks again for sharing your thoughts.

Mulk

[totalnewbie]

I saw a BLARGE tonite, boys Varsity, 3 man crew.

Drive into the lane from the perimeter, shot/crash.

Two whistles. C had a call and L had a call. C whistled and very enthusiastically showed a charge. L came out with a block signal. Both had fists up initially but both went immediately to their preliminary signal (particularly the C calling the charge). But they immediately recognized it, L pointed to C in deference, C restated his call and it stood. They figured it out real quick and no one had time to even figure out the double call.

If you are going to mess it up, it looked to me (for all I know) that they fixed it the right way

Frankly, from the stands it looked like a block (I was watching, having just finished my really lame girls JV game; I love reffing but sometimes those are a drag).

I was in the locker room with them after the game. They didnt discuss it. So I asked "how did you guys decide who to defer to on that block/charge you had?" Guy who was L said "I thought he had a better look so I gave it to him" (even though it was right under the basket). I said "You guys shure resolved it quick, before anyone who wasnt a ref even figured out there was a double whistle."

It seemed to me (for all I know) that the problem was two fold: 1. the gym was loud and I dont know if the C heard his partner's whistle to clue him in to the double whistle and his partner, as the L, was under on the other side which might have blocked him out; and 2. the general enthusiasm in going right to that emphatic charge motion for the crowd. Everyone loves to make that charge call!

I think had the C held his fist a little longer (and the L too) and not gone to the charge signal right away they could have recognized the double and worked it out without having to have given two conflicting preliminary signals.

I'm just trying to learn by watching.

Clark

[Edited by totalnewbie on Feb 9th, 2005 at 01:31 AM]

[JRutledge]

Totalnewbie,

If two officials come out with different signals, then they have to go with a double foul. It is technically against the rules to go with one or the other. I am sorry I do not have my casebook right now, but they have to go with a double foul according to the casebook.

Peace

[NotReallyHere]

I wasn't there when this story actually happened, but my partner last night told me the following, which occurred in a D3 NCAA game this season.

A1 drives to the basket and contacts B1 who has a position almost directly beneath the hoop, knocking B1 to the floor and the ball goes in. The lead official whistles and indicates and verbalizes a charge, and wipes off the hoop.

As he gets to the reporting area, he says to this partner, "Wait, he was right under the basket. I can't call that a charge." Then to the table and benches, he says "My mistake! Block! Score the basket. Shooting one."

In this play, should they have administered it as a one-man blarge?!!! (eek)

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by NotReallyHere
I wasn't there when this story actually happened, but my partner last night told me the following, which occurred in a D3 NCAA game this season.

A1 drives to the basket and contacts B1 who has a position almost directly beneath the hoop, knocking B1 to the floor and the ball goes in. The lead official whistles and indicates and verbalizes a charge, and wipes off the hoop.

As he gets to the reporting area, he says to this partner, "Wait, he was right under the basket. I can't call that a charge." Then to the table and benches, he says "My mistake! Block! Score the basket. Shooting one."

In this play, should they have administered it as a one-man blarge?!!! (eek)

Why was your partner trying to use an NCAA woman's rule in a man's game? It's a charge if the contact occured before the ball went in, isn't it?

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by totalnewbie


...
It seemed to me (for all I know) that the problem was two fold: 1. the gym was loud and I dont know if the C heard his partner's whistle to clue him in to the double whistle and his partner, as the L, was under on the other side which might have blocked him out; and 2. the general enthusiasm in going right to that emphatic charge motion for the crowd. Everyone loves to make that charge call!

I think what you're saying here is the play came from the C's area? If so then that was the C's call. But it sounds like they handled it OK although a coach who was paying attention and knew what he was doing might have questioned why only 1 of the 2 fouls counts.