Deferring to parnter vs the rookie treatment - Page 3

paxsonref · #31 (**permalink**) Wed Feb 02, 2005, 08:05pm

Maybe im missing something here, but are officials and coaches supposed to be enemies? (though it may seem like it at times) I dont see a big deal chatting with the coaches before a game, or after for that matter. Now on the same point I dont expect you to be talking strategy with the coach, but we are just people doing our jobs and in this case it happens to be in the same workplace, im not sure that communication is a bad thing. Now also to be said, im not going to leave my partner out of the conversation either. just a thought. . . .

JRutledge · #32 (**permalink**) Wed Feb 02, 2005, 10:55pm

Quote:

Originally posted by stick

I agree and I hope you didn't get the idea I was disagreeing with you. Being in a similar situation when I first started out. I learned right away to go with the flow. After a while I learned to stand up for myself because they'll walk all over you if you don't.

I just wanted to make a point to add to the discussion. We are pretty much on the same page.

Peace

tomegun · #33 (**permalink**) Wed Feb 02, 2005, 11:14pm

Quote:

Originally posted by paxsonref
Maybe im missing something here, but are officials and coaches supposed to be enemies? (though it may seem like it at times) I dont see a big deal chatting with the coaches before a game, or after for that matter. Now on the same point I dont expect you to be talking strategy with the coach, but we are just people doing our jobs and in this case it happens to be in the same workplace, im not sure that communication is a bad thing. Now also to be said, im not going to leave my partner out of the conversation either. just a thought. . . .

No, there isn't anything wrong about chatting with a coach. However, it isn't right to be talking to a coach about an opponent they might not ever see if they don't win the game you are officiating and it isn't right to do this instead of having a pregame with your partner.

I'm in a situation right now where I don't know most guys. I don't have confrontations because they aren't a good thing. I feel awkward when I'm the R on the game and someone who has been here for years is with me. It is especially bad when it is one of those games that some guys would cut their arms off for (I've been really blessed since I got here). I just try to make it a cooperative thing. I try to do that no matter what because a comfortable crew will be a better crew. BUT, the bad side in me wouldn't mind putting someone like this on blast so he couldn't lie later. I'm sure there would be a way to add some sort of witnesses.

paxsonref · #34 (**permalink**) Wed Feb 02, 2005, 11:17pm

I agree, the topics discussed were probably inappropriate, and of course I would not want to take away from any pregame from my partner, but at the same time we dont have to be a-holes and not ever talk to people either. Your point is well taken though

Smitty · #35 (**permalink**) Thu Feb 03, 2005, 12:24am

Quote:

Originally posted by rainmaker

Quote:

Originally posted by Smitty

Quote:

Originally posted by JRutledge
Juulie,

Just because you saw the guys talking?

I realize the first thought might not be the best thing on your mind, but there could be other explanations. I know that often times the officials where I live are put in everyone from a locker room to a coach's office. It is not totally uncommon to see a coach in the official's dressing area for a short period of time.

Peace

I agree with this - often times we are put into the coach's office and once in a while the coach for the game I'm working will wander in and out. Sometimes the coach will engage in harmless greetings. It's especially bad when I'm telling my partner about something bad that happened the last time I had this team and the coach walks in bahind me.

It sounded as though the whole tone of the meeting between the partner and the coaches was collaborative, and that it went on quite a while. That's a whole different thing from, "congrats on making it to state" "there are some towels in this one" and "have a great game." Besides, it keeps the refs from working together, and that's also not acceptable. Besides, as someone else said, what if the opposing coach walks in and sees this cozy little huddle, and I'm there even just passively observing, it's MY integrity that suffers. I'm not giving that up for anyone.

Totally understood and I agree with that completely. It would be very uncomfortable to experience that sort of thing. Speaking of...I get to work with JA Jr. again this weekend at an 8th grade girl's tourney. How much you wanna bet he talks to everyone in the stands before the games?

rainmaker · #36 (**permalink**) Thu Feb 03, 2005, 01:03am

Quote:

Originally posted by Smitty

Quote:

Originally posted by rainmaker
It sounded as though the whole tone of the meeting between the partner and the coaches was collaborative, and that it went on quite a while. That's a whole different thing from, "congrats on making it to state" "there are some towels in this one" and "have a great game." Besides, it keeps the refs from working together, and that's also not acceptable. Besides, as someone else said, what if the opposing coach walks in and sees this cozy little huddle, and I'm there even just passively observing, it's MY integrity that suffers. I'm not giving that up for anyone.

Totally understood and I agree with that completely. It would be very uncomfortable to experience that sort of thing. Speaking of...I get to work with JA Jr. again this weekend at an 8th grade girl's tourney. How much you wanna bet he talks to everyone in the stands before the games?

Sheez, what did you do to make Howard mad!?!

It's still not as bad as.. well, I won't mention any names, but I can think of worse partners...

RookieDude · #37 (**permalink**) Thu Feb 03, 2005, 01:03am

Quote:

Originally posted by rainmaker
I'm checking in to this thread kinda late, but my opinion is that if I'd walked into a dressing room to find my partner and a head coach from the next game in there together, I'd walk out, find some kind of association official and report it on the spot. And I WOULD NOT work that game, even if it meant never doing another game in that state again. Good grief, doesn't anyone find this immoral or unethical?!?

The whole reason I started thinking about reffing was because of a tournament game where my daughter's team was cheated out of their fair chance by collusion between a crooked pair of officials and a head coach. I can't imagine even standing by and letting that happen.

Welcome to the BIG TIME rainmaker...oh wait...you probably haven't done a playoff game yet.
Hmmmmmmm, think about it rainmaker...you're not ready (mentally)
Sorry for coming off "Big Time"...but sheesh, relax.
You wouldn't really storm out of the locker room and go get some official would you?
That has got to be the funniest thing I have read all night.
Maybe go so far has to try to "Big Time" the big-timer in front of coaches...but I gotta tell ya...that's not a move that people I know made, working their way up.
This guy has 20+ years...state championship games...are you kidding me? Give it some time before you take on the world.
Be firm...but wait your turn.
Hey...I just made that up...give me another beer.

rainmaker · #38 (**permalink**) Thu Feb 03, 2005, 01:23am

Quote:

Originally posted by RookieDude

Quote:

Originally posted by rainmaker
I'm checking in to this thread kinda late, but my opinion is that if I'd walked into a dressing room to find my partner and a head coach from the next game in there together, I'd walk out, find some kind of association official and report it on the spot. And I WOULD NOT work that game, even if it meant never doing another game in that state again. Good grief, doesn't anyone find this immoral or unethical?!?

The whole reason I started thinking about reffing was because of a tournament game where my daughter's team was cheated out of their fair chance by collusion between a crooked pair of officials and a head coach. I can't imagine even standing by and letting that happen.

Welcome to the BIG TIME rainmaker...oh wait...you probably haven't done a playoff game yet.
Hmmmmmmm, think about it rainmaker...you're not ready (mentally)
Sorry for coming off "Big Time"...but sheesh, relax.
You wouldn't really storm out of the locker room and go get some official would you?
That has got to be the funniest thing I have read all night.
Maybe go so far has to try to "Big Time" the big-timer in front of coaches...but I gotta tell ya...that's not a move that people I know made, working their way up.
This guy has 20+ years...state championship games...are you kidding me? Give it some time before you take on the world.
Be firm...but wait your turn.
Hey...I just made that up...give me another beer.

RookieDude -- I'm saying that if I discover that a game I'm assigned to is going to be called on the basis of agreements between one coach and a ref, I'm not doing it period. I wouldn't have anything to do with it. If that means I never get higher than 6th grade girls again, well, fine. If that's how this state wants to run their tournament, I'm outta there. It is unprofessional and unethical to sit down and agree how a game is going to be called with coaches from only one of the teams. I could not allow my integrity to be compromised in this way. If you don't have a problem with working that way, that's your business, but I have lost a lot of respect for you.

RookieDude · #39 (**permalink**) Thu Feb 03, 2005, 01:38am

Quote:

Originally posted by rainmaker

Quote:

Originally posted by RookieDude

Quote:

Originally posted by rainmaker
I'm checking in to this thread kinda late, but my opinion is that if I'd walked into a dressing room to find my partner and a head coach from the next game in there together, I'd walk out, find some kind of association official and report it on the spot. And I WOULD NOT work that game, even if it meant never doing another game in that state again. Good grief, doesn't anyone find this immoral or unethical?!?

The whole reason I started thinking about reffing was because of a tournament game where my daughter's team was cheated out of their fair chance by collusion between a crooked pair of officials and a head coach. I can't imagine even standing by and letting that happen.

Welcome to the BIG TIME rainmaker...oh wait...you probably haven't done a playoff game yet.
Hmmmmmmm, think about it rainmaker...you're not ready (mentally)
Sorry for coming off "Big Time"...but sheesh, relax.
You wouldn't really storm out of the locker room and go get some official would you?
That has got to be the funniest thing I have read all night.
Maybe go so far has to try to "Big Time" the big-timer in front of coaches...but I gotta tell ya...that's not a move that people I know made, working their way up.
This guy has 20+ years...state championship games...are you kidding me? Give it some time before you take on the world.
Be firm...but wait your turn.
Hey...I just made that up...give me another beer.

RookieDude -- I'm saying that if I discover that a game I'm assigned to is going to be called on the basis of agreements between one coach and a ref, I'm not doing it period. I wouldn't have anything to do with it. If that means I never get higher than 6th grade girls again, well, fine. If that's how this state wants to run their tournament, I'm outta there. It is unprofessional and unethical to sit down and agree how a game is going to be called with coaches from only one of the teams. I could not allow my integrity to be compromised in this way. If you don't have a problem with working that way, that's your business, but I have lost a lot of respect for you.

Now you're saying "if that's how this state wants to run their tournament, I'm outta there."
You just jumped from an isolated incident...to the whole damn "state".
Again, take a deep breath...relax.
It's no great news that there are big A$$ holes out there in referee land. Remember the sysem we work in. One man's *** is another man's friend. Argggggggg...
...Bartender...tab please!!!

rainmaker · #40 (**permalink**) Thu Feb 03, 2005, 01:43am

Quote:

Originally posted by RookieDude

Quote:

Originally posted by rainmaker

Quote:

Originally posted by RookieDude

Quote:

Originally posted by rainmaker
I'm checking in to this thread kinda late, but my opinion is that if I'd walked into a dressing room to find my partner and a head coach from the next game in there together, I'd walk out, find some kind of association official and report it on the spot. And I WOULD NOT work that game, even if it meant never doing another game in that state again. Good grief, doesn't anyone find this immoral or unethical?!?

The whole reason I started thinking about reffing was because of a tournament game where my daughter's team was cheated out of their fair chance by collusion between a crooked pair of officials and a head coach. I can't imagine even standing by and letting that happen.

Welcome to the BIG TIME rainmaker...oh wait...you probably haven't done a playoff game yet.
Hmmmmmmm, think about it rainmaker...you're not ready (mentally)
Sorry for coming off "Big Time"...but sheesh, relax.
You wouldn't really storm out of the locker room and go get some official would you?
That has got to be the funniest thing I have read all night.
Maybe go so far has to try to "Big Time" the big-timer in front of coaches...but I gotta tell ya...that's not a move that people I know made, working their way up.
This guy has 20+ years...state championship games...are you kidding me? Give it some time before you take on the world.
Be firm...but wait your turn.
Hey...I just made that up...give me another beer.

RookieDude -- I'm saying that if I discover that a game I'm assigned to is going to be called on the basis of agreements between one coach and a ref, I'm not doing it period. I wouldn't have anything to do with it. If that means I never get higher than 6th grade girls again, well, fine. If that's how this state wants to run their tournament, I'm outta there. It is unprofessional and unethical to sit down and agree how a game is going to be called with coaches from only one of the teams. I could not allow my integrity to be compromised in this way. If you don't have a problem with working that way, that's your business, but I have lost a lot of respect for you.

Now you're saying "if that's how this state wants to run their tournament, I'm outta there."
You just jumped from an isolated incident...to the whole damn "state".
Again, take a deep breath...relax.
It's no great news that there are big A$$ holes out there in referee land. Remember the sysem we work in. One man's *** is another man's friend. Argggggggg...
...Bartender...tab please!!!

I'm a little baffled by your hostility. What in the world has you so upset?

bigzilla · #41 (**permalink**) Thu Feb 03, 2005, 01:53am

I should make it clear that he wasn't fixing the game. Basically, it was a ref who was there to call the game between A and B, and was discussing how A's coaches how they would match up with C, who they only played if they beat B. The coaches, to me, were basically buttering him up with comments about how great he had been in their game the night before. To me, that looks bad.

As to why I didn't just have it out with him at first, the pregame came to an abrupt and unusual end, which is sort of described in my second post on page 1 of this thread, and which certain viewers had an appreciation for no more details than given! Rest assured that it was more bizarre than described in that post, and one of my partners often requests that I describe it in detail to other parnters, just to hear the howls.

RookieDude · #42 (**permalink**) Thu Feb 03, 2005, 01:54am

Quote:

Originally posted by rainmaker

Quote:

Originally posted by RookieDude

Quote:

Originally posted by rainmaker

Quote:

Originally posted by RookieDude

Quote:

Originally posted by rainmaker
I'm checking in to this thread kinda late, but my opinion is that if I'd walked into a dressing room to find my partner and a head coach from the next game in there together, I'd walk out, find some kind of association official and report it on the spot. And I WOULD NOT work that game, even if it meant never doing another game in that state again. Good grief, doesn't anyone find this immoral or unethical?!?

The whole reason I started thinking about reffing was because of a tournament game where my daughter's team was cheated out of their fair chance by collusion between a crooked pair of officials and a head coach. I can't imagine even standing by and letting that happen.

Welcome to the BIG TIME rainmaker...oh wait...you probably haven't done a playoff game yet.
Hmmmmmmm, think about it rainmaker...you're not ready (mentally)
Sorry for coming off "Big Time"...but sheesh, relax.
You wouldn't really storm out of the locker room and go get some official would you?
That has got to be the funniest thing I have read all night.
Maybe go so far has to try to "Big Time" the big-timer in front of coaches...but I gotta tell ya...that's not a move that people I know made, working their way up.
This guy has 20+ years...state championship games...are you kidding me? Give it some time before you take on the world.
Be firm...but wait your turn.
Hey...I just made that up...give me another beer.

RookieDude -- I'm saying that if I discover that a game I'm assigned to is going to be called on the basis of agreements between one coach and a ref, I'm not doing it period. I wouldn't have anything to do with it. If that means I never get higher than 6th grade girls again, well, fine. If that's how this state wants to run their tournament, I'm outta there. It is unprofessional and unethical to sit down and agree how a game is going to be called with coaches from only one of the teams. I could not allow my integrity to be compromised in this way. If you don't have a problem with working that way, that's your business, but I have lost a lot of respect for you.

Now you're saying "if that's how this state wants to run their tournament, I'm outta there."
You just jumped from an isolated incident...to the whole damn "state".
Again, take a deep breath...relax.
It's no great news that there are big A$$ holes out there in referee land. Remember the sysem we work in. One man's *** is another man's friend. Argggggggg...
...Bartender...tab please!!!

I'm a little baffled by your hostility. What in the world has you so upset?

Hostility?
Just giving my opinion with a little "conviction".

Again, Relax...
you're not the only one I'm picking on tonight.

rainmaker · #43 (**permalink**) Thu Feb 03, 2005, 01:58am

Quote:

Originally posted by RookieDude
Hostility?
Just giving my opinion with a little "conviction".
Again, Relax...
you're not the only one I'm picking on tonight.

So, why pick on anyone? I don't get your point...

rainmaker · #44 (**permalink**) Thu Feb 03, 2005, 02:05am

Quote:

Originally posted by RookieDude

Welcome to the BIG TIME rainmaker...oh wait...you probably haven't done a playoff game yet.
Hmmmmmmm, think about it rainmaker...you're not ready (mentally)
Sorry for coming off "Big Time"...but sheesh, relax.
You wouldn't really storm out of the locker room and go get some official would you?
That has got to be the funniest thing I have read all night.

So Rookie, you seriously don't have a problem with a ref and one coach from the next game having a private conference about what's going to happen next?

paxsonref · #45 (**permalink**) Thu Feb 03, 2005, 08:46am

So a private conversation all of the sudden becomes a plot to fix the game? Whered that assumption come from? How many here have fixed a game after talking to a coach before a game, raise your hands. . . . I didnt think so. . .

Plus most officials should be aware, a coach who compliments you before the game might be sincere, but alot of compliments means hes probably fishing for a call later that night. I would hope most would realize that and not let it affect how things are called.

[Edited by paxsonref on Feb 3rd, 2005 at 09:45 AM]