Deferring to parnter vs the rookie treatment

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by paxsonref
So a private conversation all of the sudden becomes a plot to fix the game? Whered that assumption come from? How many here have fixed a game after talking to a coach before a game, raise your hands. . . . I didnt think so. . .


Plus most officials should be aware, a coach who compliments you before the game might be sincere, but alot of compliments means hes probably fishing for a call later that night. I would hope most would realize that and not let it affect how things are called.

[Edited by paxsonref on Feb 3rd, 2005 at 09:45 AM]

Paxon -- This conversation went on and on and on, and it was based on the assumption that the one coach would win the next game which that ref was working. I'm not saying it was a conscious plot, but it was unethical and unprofessional. It was carried on in secret, and interfered with the ability of the refs to be a good team and give the players the refs' best game. In Oregon, if I walked in on that situation, I would go find an state tournament official such as the commissioner or assignor, and report it. And I would refuse to work that game with that ref. I know that the OSAA would not approve of this situation, and would put a stop to it. The integrity of the whole crew is compromised by this situation. If this ref who was conferring with this coach is such a high official in that state that everyone kowtows to him and thinks whatever he does is just fine, I would not want to work in that state. He is not a credit to the reffing community, and anyone who lets him act this way is no credit, either.

[Smitty]

Originally posted by RookieDude

It's no great news that there are big A$$ holes out there in referee land.

You certainly drove that point home...

[paxsonref]

Is it possible that some of these veteran officials might know some of these coaches? Maybe even be friends with them off the court? Maybe get a round of golf in together in the summer? A conversation about who they MIGHT play IF they win is stupid, arrogant, conceited, but unethical? Did you hear the official respond by saying "when you win tonight. . . . because im going to give you all the calls. . . .etc. . . " If a coach started a conversation like this with me, I'd probably remind him "Youve still got one to play tonight coach" and leave it at that. If you had "walked in" on a situation like this, how do you know where the conversation started, who brought it up, or what was said prior to you arriving? I think its pretty unfair to assume that all or any official is crooked or is doing something against the fairness of the game. I would expect the simple fact that they are an official should give them the integrity not to let stupid conversations like that affect them, and to not even let friendships affect how they call the game. I dont care if my best man was coaching a team that I had a game for, he isnt getting one damn call because of what he said before or during the game, and he surely isnt getting anything because we happen to be friends. Maybe thats too big of an assumption to make for everyone, but the people I know and I work with wouldnt let their integrity be compromised my a coach or anyone else for that matter. Im just confused at why you are so passionate about condeming the whole state for an incident like this? Why the hostility?

[Smitty]

Originally posted by paxsonref
Is it possible that some of these veteran officials might know some of these coaches? Maybe even be friends with them off the court? Maybe get a round of golf in together in the summer? A conversation about who they MIGHT play IF they win is stupid, arrogant, conceited, but unethical? Did you hear the official respond by saying "when you win tonight. . . . because im going to give you all the calls. . . .etc. . . " If a coach started a conversation like this with me, I'd probably remind him "Youve still got one to play tonight coach" and leave it at that. If you had "walked in" on a situation like this, how do you know where the conversation started, who brought it up, or what was said prior to you arriving? I think its pretty unfair to assume that all or any official is crooked or is doing something against the fairness of the game. I would expect the simple fact that they are an official should give them the integrity not to let stupid conversations like that affect them, and to not even let friendships affect how they call the game. I dont care if my best man was coaching a team that I had a game for, he isnt getting one damn call because of what he said before or during the game, and he surely isnt getting anything because we happen to be friends. Maybe thats too big of an assumption to make for everyone, but the people I know and I work with wouldnt let their integrity be compromised my a coach or anyone else for that matter. Im just confused at why you are so passionate about condeming the whole state for an incident like this? Why the hostility?

I don't care if it's my partner's brother-in-law, that time in the dressing area is not the time to be chatting it up with one of the coaches for tonight's game. It puts me in a very uncomfortable situation and it definitely damages the integrity of my partner. If they are good friends or whatever, there'll be plenty of time after the game someplace else to catch up and talk about old times. Not at the gym before the game. Not in my dressing room. It's just not right.

[LepTalBldgs]

I've had a few instances where a partner was having a long conversation about today's game or the season with a coach without the other coach present.

In each instance I have gently interrupted and said something to encourage the coach to move on. Each time it has worked and then I've followed up with a statement to my partner that "it might not be a good idea to . . . ", and "it may seem to others that you are favoring one coach". Just gently telling them to not do that, at least when I'm around.

Now this guy you were dealing with may have been such an @** that he wouldn't have listened to you anyway. Really not much you can do but get the game(s) over.

[RookieDude]

Ok...
Around these parts 50% of our ratings come from coaches.
Right or wrong...that's the way it is. Now...you want to be aloof...be my guest...put in my experiences...the guy that can communicate with a coach (on or off the court) is the guy that is gonna get his games.
You think that is cheating? Unethical?
Well...
when you do a game with me...show me anywhere at any point in the game where you think I cheated...remember I had a brief conversation with the coach.
You are correct...the impression of coaches and officials having long coversations is of concern.
We are talking about coversations in the locker room...out of the public's eye.
Where I come from...some of the time we dress in the Home Team's Locker room. Some of the time a coach runs into us as he is going to an ajacent room...we have a brief exchange...and that's it.
Just be cordial.
Your working relationship with the Coach will begin soon enough.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by RookieDude

Just be cordial.
Your working relationship with the Coach will begin soon enough.

Kinda what they tell you at the pet store when you take home that brand new puppy:

"Give him some water with a little food when you get home. The paper training will begin about 20 minutes later."

[RookieDude]

Originally posted by Dan_ref

Kinda what they tell you at the pet store when you take home that brand new puppy:

"Give him some water with a little food when you get home. The paper training will begin about 20 minutes later."

Beautiful!

[Gozer]

Second that, and move to Pass!!!!

Kenny

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by RookieDude
Ok...
Around these parts 50% of our ratings come from coaches.
Right or wrong...that's the way it is. Now...you want to be aloof...be my guest...put in my experiences...the guy that can communicate with a coach (on or off the court) is the guy that is gonna get his games.
You think that is cheating? Unethical?
Well...
when you do a game with me...

I never will do a game with you. It simply wouldn't happen.

[gordon30307]

Kinda late to this thread.

1. I can't believe a "big time official" would treat his partner as described. Simply no excuse.

2. It's inappropriate for the Coaches to be in the locker room. I've changed in many a coaches office and they rarely if ever came in there. If they did they were in and out quickly.

3. It's inappropriate to give scouting reports to Coache's at any time which this official seemed to be doing. I'm with Rainmaker on this if I saw this going on I would suddenly come down with a mysterious illness or injury that would prevent me from doing that game.

4. I've never had a Coach compliment me before a game. After a (usually they won) game sure but never before.

I'm thankful that in my neck of the woods that assignment chairman assign games for the various conferences and not the Coaches or AD's. Limits the number of people "you have to suck up to" LOL.

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by gordon30307
Kinda late to this thread.

1. I can't believe a "big time official" would treat his partner as described. Simply no excuse.

2. It's inappropriate for the Coaches to be in the locker room. I've changed in many a coaches office and they rarely if ever came in there. If they did they were in and out quickly.

3. It's inappropriate to give scouting reports to Coache's at any time which this official seemed to be doing. I'm with Rainmaker on this if I saw this going on I would suddenly come down with a mysterious illness or injury that would prevent me from doing that game.

4. I've never had a Coach compliment me before a game. After a (usually they won) game sure but never before.

I'm thankful that in my neck of the woods that assignment chairman assign games for the various conferences and not the Coaches or AD's. Limits the number of people "you have to suck up to" LOL.

Thanks, Gordon. I appreciate your agreement.

[blindzebra]

Any interaction with a coach before a game that lasts more then 30 seconds to 1 minute, better have BOTH coaches present. Anything else is unprofessional and inappropriate, even if it is not unethical, it gives the impression of bias.

Being professional and cordial, is a far cry from kissing a coaches behind for a better rating. No matter how chummy you are, the game is what that coach is gonna rate you on anyway.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by blindzebra
Any interaction with a coach before a game that lasts more then 30 seconds to 1 minute, better have BOTH coaches present. Anything else is unprofessional and inappropriate, even if it is not unethical, it gives the impression of bias.

Being professional and cordial, is a far cry from kissing a coaches behind for a better rating. No matter how chummy you are, the game is what that coach is gonna rate you on anyway.

That is so over dramatic. Give me a break. So if you are talking to a coach about his scorebook, is that an unprofessional conversation?

I realize that talking to a coach is not the best thing before a game, but all circumstances are not as simple as many of you are trying to make this.

Peace

[RookieDude]

Originally posted by rainmaker

I never will do a game with you. It simply wouldn't happen.

Then I guess that would be my loss...for not getting to experience officiating with someone with different philosophies and high standards.